Discussion in 'Varminter & Hunting Forum' started by daniel brothers, Dec 1, 2019.
I was checking the calendar to make sure this wasn't April 1st!
Yes , if there's a crack in the dilithium crystal's the size of the grand canyon. Will it break up ? I dunaknow !
It doesn’t have to be that fast. I believe being proficient with your weapon is the best thing going for any bullet/cartridge combo. A man with a scoped rifle, 06 I believe, shot a 150 class buck right in the ham. We watched the buck come down the fence all hunkered up and lay down. Called the land owner next to our place and told him where the deer was. Deer had made it almost a half mile. He was not proficient with his weapon. Didn’t matter how big the bullet was. Think about this, indians did it with two sticks, some feathers, string and a rock. I’m sure it wasn’t warp speed. Now I’m know they probably didn’t kill everything the stuck. Point being it doesn’t take much to kill a whitetail. I watched Mark Drury on tv kill a huge buck with a .223. Not sure what projectile he was using, but you double lung or heart shoot one it will die. Shot placement is key with lighter bullets. Probably been more whitetails die from a single .22 rimfire to the head than we could ever imagine. Put the bullet high in the shoulder, get both shoulders and the spine. No track job required!
That's unethical ! So are neck shots, so are head shots. Double lungs, low to clip the top of the heart is the ethical choice. It is my job to report bad shot placement advice , so you are on notice ! I'll let it go this time ! just kidding.
I don't have a certain bullet in mind, just something light weight like a 95 or 100.... the reason why is this...
Youth hunts with 243 rifles, with factory 100 gr bullets usually knock the deer down pretty quick when hit in the correct area. The 25/06 is notorious for DRT kills... and the only difference between those two calibers and bullet weights are only slight... with the 25/06 having more speed... and that may be why it does so good in DRT kills. So.... why can't a high speed 6.5 creedmoor bullet do about the same...? I know for sure with hands on experience that my 22-243AI with 80 amaxes, @ 3500 fps, knocks them in the dirt all the time. The common thread between them all has to be lighter weight bullets that are moving along pretty fast... it has to be all about the hydrostatic shock thingy. We have all heard plenty of stories about people killing deer quick with 223 and 22-250 calibers, so it has to be light weight and speed. The 260 caliber Boys can tell all kinds of stories about DRT kills.
I simply started this thread to see what others were experiencing in real like condition. thanks for your inputs.
Now I have to also watch for a deer's exhale.... like I don't have enough already to watch for and think about before I pull the trigger....LOL.
Its more the bullets construction, less the speed. Shot a buck @40yds with a 100gr Grand Slam at 3450fps. Very unimpressive, turns out I didnt need the toughest bullet for those speeds. The take away is mote speed is better but if the bullet doesnt perform well or under performs then its all moot.
Also RL26 can turn a 243 into a 240weatherby.
It is the best thing to happen to 6mm hunting rigs in my 40yrs. (but the GS is still to tough, and the 3450 was a 6AI)
The fallacy in pushing V-Max bullets faster than about 2900 fps is that they tend to extensively fragment at higher impact velocities. The explosion-like effect reduces penetration and raises the specter of wounding without immediate kills.
The speeds of the Grendel are ideally suited for cup and core bullets like the V-Max.
Go with monometal hunting bullets if you have a cartridge that will drive faster than 3,000 fps with the bullet weight of choice.
Being in a non-lead state I have used Barnes among others for many years, but have switched to Hammer Bullets for several reasons, the biggest being the on game terminal performance. Similar BC's as Barnes but they are ~insensitive to seating depth, use a softer copper that expands more reliably, and has less engraving pressure so you generally get higher velocity for a given bullet weight. Also they don'y give the sudden pressure spikes as you can get from Barnes if you adjust the seating depth. Load development is easier that any bullet I have ever loaded for. There's a bunch of threads on Long Range Hunting about them. The tip expands and breaks apart while the base penetrates thru creating a huge wound cavity. One LRH member used a .30 cal 181 Hammer on a water buffalo, one shot kill with full penetration. They are lathe spun like Cutting Edge(which I have also shot) but I feel they have better performance.
LOL. I love me some big bore, hits like Mjölnir.
I shot my deer this year with a 6.5br and clipped on side shoulder, went all way through with a 100 g Seirra HP. He was 250 yards out and he ran 25 yards and hit a tree and was dead
There's a certain type of flag i would like to throw. Pressure spikes ? Seating depth ? Really ? 100 ttsx can never be loaded out far enough to even come close to the rifling. So seating depth is not a worry. Tsx and ttsx bullet's have groves cut in the shank so as to prevent pressure spikes and reduce copper fouling. They work perfectly perfect , and imagining some kind of fault is , or should be unimaginable .
The grooves are not cut in the shanks, where did you think that up ? There are many more Barnes bullets than the 100 grain that can touch the lands, that is something one does not have to imagine. Pressure spikes with a bullet as hard as Barnes happen, and they are sensitive to seating depth. Keep shooting whatever bullet you want, I found a bullet that is superior in every aspect including weight, bearing surface, BTO, etc. and most of all terminal performance.
I think I am leaning HARD towards the Barnes...they just sound to good.
Read this thread and see if the input from the actual bullet manufacturer(Steve aka RocktMtnMt) doesn't sway your opinion. You will never find Barnes offering advice on a forum. They have by far the BEST customer service/tech I have found. If that's not enough...they will buy the bullets back if you don't like them.
There are plenty of threads on LRH. I think Barnes are/was a great bullet but they haven't kept up to date and historically their load data has sucked.
I used a 25-06 AI for years and it was a devastating killer. I recently switched to a 6.5 Creedmore with 120 AMAX and H4350. I have shot 6 deer with it a couple out to 300 yards and every single one dropped where it stood. I am not saying is better than the 25-06 but less noise, less recoil and deer are DRT...
Kapt... good tip... I have also decided to load up lighter and faster bullets as well... nothing larger than 120's. What bullet did you use in your 25/06?
I am the barnes guru! If you have questions i can help. I have loaded them in all cartridges. Excellent accuracy depends on powder used.
As mentioned also in this thread, impact velocity.
Some may raise an eye brow at the use of varmint bullets for reduced velocity, but they work well.
Hornady and Sierra both had some good designs of single shot pistol bullets, now discontinued by both. So there there were a few guys trying the varmint bullets in some of their pistols.
On the Grendel side, there is a gent that used his 6.5Grendel with the Speer TNT bullet on hogs. The performance was suprising and very impressive. I am very tempted to try that bullet on deer.
He has quite a bunch of YouTube videos, carpe sus.
I've had problems with the Barnes x ttsx 338/210gr opening at ranges longer than 400 yards and that's leaving the muzzle at 3170 have you had this experience with any Barnes bullets after 400 yards.. I shot them into wet phone books at 400 and 500 yards after they wouldn't open call the guy at Barnes bullets he said they wasn't getting enough hydraulics to open he suggested I put a gallon of water in front of the phone books and I did that and still have the same exact results.
6.5 caliber, 100g partitions really mess up a deer according to a friend that shoots them in a 6.5 Creed.
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