Anschutz- Walther chrome moly-vs-stainless barrel. Why?

Discussion in 'Rimfire & Smallbore' started by shortine, May 26, 2019.

  1. shortine

    shortine

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    First, I am not a machinist, or metallurgist; so forgive me some misinterpretations.....or correct them.

    Second, I am not concerned with aesthetics, maintenance (I do understand maintenance contributes to accuracy) or even longevity.....just accuracy.

    What I am wondering is why Anschutz and Walther offer only chrome -moly barrels on their high end target rifles. I believe Walther offers a stainless fluted (why only fluted?) barrel as an option. You can probably get anything you want from their custom shops if you live long enough, and have deep pockets.

    The avant garde of the rimfire world, Grunig and Elmiger, and Bleiker; offer stainless as their standard barrels.. Anyone who attends benchrest matches will see stainless exclusively. More and more of the position rifles at World Cup, and Olympic competition are stainless

    I believe both Anschutz and Walther use button rifling, and I understand that stainless is the ideal material for that process. According to the research I have done, the single strongest asset of stainless is it's ease of machining; contributing to smoother bores, and therefore accuracy.

    Do both Anschutz and Walther expect the barrels shipped with their competition rifles to be tossed? That's about all I can come up with. That's may be the case with many competitors. Maybe they have some specific reasons for staying with chrome-moly? Or are they just a bit slow to change?

    Thank you all for your input.

    Gerry
     
  2. watercam

    watercam Gold $$ Contributor

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    Good question. CM is minutely less expensive depending upon alloy and theoretically is supposed to shoot a tad better. That said, I have stainless barrels on most of my match rifles and am happy. I would go with their hope that the factory CM barrels will shoot better.
     
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  3. Tim s

    Tim s

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    Well, one interesting factoid, in the precision rimfire world, as in benchrest, nobody really above club level, use either one.
    In terms of SS attributes for finished bore, that really is not true since match grade barrels are generally had lapped after final machining.
    Lastly, smoother bores don’t contribute nearly as much to accuracy as does proper interior bore dimensions, uniformity and taper.
     
    Boyd L. likes this.
  4. shortine

    shortine

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    Tim,

    If not stainless steel or chrome-moly steel: what do they use? Or were you referring to Anschutz and Walther? I thought Shilen, Benchmark, and Lilja all hand lapped their premium match grade barrels; and almost all of those I've seen are stainless steel.

    Anyway, that doesn't answer my initial question. Why are two of the top accuracy manufacturers offering only chrome-moly as their standard barrel on competition rifles?

    Thanks,

    Gerry
     
  5. Tim s

    Tim s

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    My comment was relative to the fact that machining does not yield that fine finish, hand lapping does, however, the pount is somewhat moot since few are competitive at the higher levels.
    Since SS is considerably softer, perhaps they lean towards CM because they’re less likely to be damaged, never saw/read a specific reason.
     
  6. shortine

    shortine

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    To reply #5

    I read your comment before it was taken down; and don't have any idea why it was removed.

    Thanks for your contribution anyway.

    Gerry
     
  7. dgeesaman

    dgeesaman Gold $$ Contributor

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    This is my general opinion.

    Companies with technical heritage have processes that have been proven effective hundreds or thousands of times over. So firstly, making a major change to something that might be minutely better (stainless to chrome-moly) has essentially all risk and no reward.

    Secondly, could an advantage even be detected? I doubt it. Basic items like chamber tolerances, high quality bore machining, rifle tuning, and ammo lot testing have much more effect on the outcome.

    David
     
  8. shortine

    shortine

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    David,

    You're probably right. I guess I'm skewed toward benchrest, where "minutely better" is the difference between winning and losing. And, yeah; we don't have to spend a 100 million on tooling to build a competitive one of rifle.

    Other than benchrest, are any of our domestic custom receiver/ barrel combinations on the world stage? Is there any homologation required for World Cup and Olympic equipment?

    Thanks for the comment,

    Gerry
     
  9. natdscott

    natdscott P100, HM, DR, experienced beginner. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Gerry, most certainly not nearly all the barrels shipped on Anschutz rifles get "tossed".

    I'd wager 99% of them are used as-is.

    Now if you're talking about BR50....why are you looking at using an Anschutz in the first place? Maybe the 54.30 is easier to work with, but given the PITA effects of the 54, and the relatively open receiver design, I wouldn't bother di*(ing around with one for Benchrest.
     
  10. shortine

    shortine

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    "I wouldn't bother di*(ing around with one for Benchrest."

    Joe Besche might disagree with that, but I understand exactly where you're coming from.

    I don't have a lot of money, and feel pretty bad about spending anything exclusively for myself. I spent about $3000 on a custom build that shot very well, but I got to thinking; what is a rifle with action made by A, barrel made by B, Trigger made by C, stock made by E, and smithed by F, going to be worth in 20-25 years? Are any of those people still going to be around? I'd like to leave something of value to my son; and I figured maybe a Walther action, Walther barrel, Walther trigger, Walther stock, put together by Walther ( sub Anschutz if you want) might be worth substantially more than a custom build in 20 - 25 years; and though I probably won't win anything, I'll have fun trying. And, live with a little less guilt.

    Thanks for your response,

    Gerry
     
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  11. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    I would not think too far into the future,enjoy a rifle while you can . Much better things to invest in these days .
     
  12. js2013

    js2013

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    I couldn’t be happier with my Walther. Sure it cost an arm and a leg but it shoots like a dream and was money well spent IMhO. One of the best triggers you’ll find in that class of rifle, or anywhere for that matter. I’m a position/sling shooter and accuracy is world class, as shown by the test target and my own experience.

    Lots of good detailed info about the kk300/500 on rimfireaccuracy.com. The KK’s have been very successful in the international level also.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  13. 55fairlane

    55fairlane

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    As a tool and die maker, in can tell you chrome moly steel is very dimensionally stable. Meaning, heat (cold) will not affect the size of bore,outside diameter.....plus it holds up to stress well, i.e. the barrel (shafting as we call it) will not droop, or stretch (think elastic )when you fire a round.

    I make race car suspensions, and I use chrome moly on high stress parts.
     
    USMCDOC likes this.

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