Annealing

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Jalen, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Jalen

    Jalen Silver $$ Contributor

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    Been eyeing an AMP annealer, trying to justify the price tag. In general, is it known how long the life of brass will be extended by annealing regularly?
     
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  2. Raythemanroe

    Raythemanroe Bullet Whisperer Silver $$ Contributor

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    Ya, much longer but it also allows for more consistent neck tension. The latter is more to accuracy reasons.

    Ray
     
  3. New Gun

    New Gun Gold $$ Contributor

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    Buy to your wallet and base it on the amount you shoot. JMHO. But I do lust over the AMP.
     
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  4. BenPerfected

    BenPerfected Gold $$ Contributor

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    Why not an annealing service like DJ’s Brass?
     
  5. X-47B

    X-47B X-III:XVI Gold $$ Contributor

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    For the sake of consistency, aren’t you suppose to anneal each time?
     
  6. Jalen

    Jalen Silver $$ Contributor

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    Just a personal preference I guess, I like doing things myself. Plus its convenient to have one on your own bench vs shipping brass out all the time. $1400 is steep though.
     
  7. BenPerfected

    BenPerfected Gold $$ Contributor

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    Do the math, how many pieces of brass will you fire and then anneal in a month/year? Low shipping cost using USPS Flat Rate boxes that you can hand to your mailman or drop off at the Post Office.
    Ben
     
  8. big john 5394

    big john 5394 Gold $$ Contributor

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    It took me almost two years to justify buying a amp annealer and i am not sorry for it,after i bought it it took 3 month of shooting once a week or more working the brass&loads and now it all paid off ,i shoot small at 600 yds and sd in the 2 . My only regret i did not buy sooner.
    Big John
     
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  9. Jalen

    Jalen Silver $$ Contributor

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    $20 per 100 I think is what they charge... I'd have it paid for in about 5-6 years.In that regard to me it'd be worth the investment, even though I never really considered sending my brass to someone else. Still would like to know how much longer annealing really extends the life of brass.
     
  10. Boatschool02

    Boatschool02 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I wouldn't buy for added brass life.
    Brass is cheap compared to barrels, chamber jobs, powder, primers, driving to the range, and time spent loading. Fractions of usable brass life are even cheaper.
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    I have the Mk2.
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    I've seen drastically improved shoulder set back consistency, seating force, and as a result better seated base to ogive run out on greens tool sorted bullets. ES were already good, so I can't say I've seen a difference there or on paper, to be honest. Not saying it's not there, just wasn't night and day for me. Try as I might, there's always the risk/temptation to have more than one variable in play and I'm still learning what really matters and what just feels good to measure. Shot execution is still likely the largest bang for the buck, even with Cost no object gear and no stone unturned, in fact probably moreso under those conditions.
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    Ask whether the added performance matters to your shooting vs spending more on the other items listed above.
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    If on the fence, prep two lots of your best match brass. Do nothing to one and pay/borrow annealing services on the other. My bet is that within 3-8 firings, you'll have a good idea on whether or not annealing helps or possibly even hurts your system. Be open minded to both outcomes. I know of better shooters than I who have mixed opinions... It's not likely an all or none equation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  11. INTJ

    INTJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    I bought an AMP annealing machine the year before I got back into LR BR. My first season back (2018) I annealed after each firing and had decent consistency in sizing and seating pressure. Last year I heard annealing was a bad idea, so I didn't anneal with one batch of brass and it sized, seated, and shot about like the annealed brass. This year I added another rifle for competition and am annealing again. I am using the Aztec Mode and am getting the best consistency in sizing and seating that i ever had. Shooting during testing is about the same.

    I know winning shooters who anneal every firing and those that don't. They only they they agree on with annealing is to be consistent: either do it each time or don't do it at all. Or if you shoot 6 times and anneal, be ready to re-tune your load because it's a big change going 6 firings between annealings.

    I am hopeful that by annealing I can extend the life of the brass. I know one competitor that easily gets 40 firings on his cases. It's a pain to fully BR prep 200 cases for each rifle. Given I am cutting my own chambers, I should be able to use this brass when I re-barrel.
     
  12. sqrlgtr

    sqrlgtr Silver $$ Contributor

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    ^^^^^
    This makes sense to me.I Don't anneal so I have no experience about it but that makes sense to me..
     
  13. Joe Salt

    Joe Salt Silver $$ Contributor

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    What I think I'm going to like about it is is also portable. I can take it to my camper at the range when I want to test.

    Joe Salt
     
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  14. Shooter13

    Shooter13 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I was in the fire service for 35 years so please don't tell me you take all the precautions when annealing with flame (only takes ONE mistake), my first annealer was the bench source and I liked it but firing up 2 torches in the basement of my house with 100+ lbs of gun powder and 20,000+ primers just never sat well with me so I paid a little more got the AMP and to me (to me) it is much more consistent and easier to keep the Aztec # for each batch and so much faster BUT it pains me to no end to spend all that time preparing brass, turning, expanding and then "sacrifice" that one piece!! ;-)
     
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  15. Raythemanroe

    Raythemanroe Bullet Whisperer Silver $$ Contributor

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    There are so many variables to what you are saying. If you are running very little neck tension because of how you are setup then you may not see much difference on paper. If you are only talking a couple to three firings vs annealing everytime then again you may not see a lot of difference. Some powders and setups seem to do better with stout neck tension so you may actually see better groups as brass work hardens. Usually if you are in a solid node/tune with fresh/annealed brass it will be noticable on paper. Many times with getting a consistent flyer.

    Ray
     
  16. skeeljc

    skeeljc Silver $$ Contributor

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    Does anyone know what happens to nickel plated brass when you anneal it?
     
  17. WhiskyTahoeFoxtrot

    WhiskyTahoeFoxtrot Gold $$ Contributor

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    The nickel plating will definitely change the AMP settings. Nickel plated brass is still malleable but can be more brittle. This is what Aztec mode was made for. Analyze one piece to the point of failure and record the setting for applying the right amount of heat. Basically, send one to the gods so the rest may have a long life.

    Hurts a tiny bit to cull one from the herd and send it to induction hell. I have some nickel plated 243 brass that I have set aside to run through my AMP to investigate. Just haven't done it yet. I'm die forming 6SLR from 243 brass and didn't want to put prep time into nickel plated brass for matches. I would consider it for hunting as the benefits of nickel compared to brass MIGHT be better for hunting.
     
  18. INTJ

    INTJ Gold $$ Contributor

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    Yes, there are indeed lots of variables, so whether ones anneals or not, the right answer is to be consistent and to re-tune if things change too much.
     
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  19. Ccrider

    Ccrider Gold $$ Contributor

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    Forever. :)

    Well, maybe not forever, but even with one of my hot .257 STW wildcat loads, where two firings was max before necks started to split, I can now load 5 times annealing after each firing and have no splitting. Primer pockets are a different story.

    The other thing is consistency in neck tension. I have shot PPC brass that over time would get harder and harder, requiring that I step down in bushing size. Annealing solves this problem. Primer pockets are a different story.
     
  20. edwardware

    edwardware

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    I built the two motor fleabay special propane annealer, for about $50 in parts. As an intermediate step between $0 and $1400, I think it works pretty well.
     
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