Action Design

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by sparker, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. sparker

    sparker

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    It has occurred to me that virtually all modern BR actions are designed either around a Remington 700 footprint or around a Remington style bolt. Single shot solid bottom actions have no need for such a long bolt travel. the Remington style bolt makes use of a very long ignition system that has a longer lock-time and greater mass in moving components than would otherwise be necessary. If only an action could be devised from scratch around a flawless ignition system...

    Perfection can be had only through letting go of flawed systems.

    Scott Parker
     
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  2. 6MMsteve

    6MMsteve Gold $$ Contributor

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    Savage
     
  3. dkhunt14

    dkhunt14

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    I prefer long actions so when you throat the gun out for big heavy bullets, you can get the loaded round out the gun. In BR the longer bolt doesn't hurt. Lock time doesn't mean much. That's why most BR guys found the lightweight firing pin springs and pins hurt accuracy. Matt
     
  4. NWnewguy

    NWnewguy

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    Savage? Probably not what Scott was thinking!

    I think there was an action that used belleville washers for loading the firing pin. Would certainly have a faster lock time and less moving mass.
     
  5. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    BAT L series, short throw.
     
  6. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens

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    Come up with a better design and itll make you rich
     
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  7. Toby Bradshaw

    Toby Bradshaw Gold $$ Contributor

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  8. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens

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    nobody knows more about fire control and ignition than dwight scott. the nuevo is his brainchild
     
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  9. Robert

    Robert Silver $$ Contributor

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    Scott,
    The solution is extremely simple:
    it is to get rid of the shroud cocking system who compels to have the trigger far to the rear as it is for repeaters.
    Using the closed bolt system allow a much shorter action and lighter striker mass in motion.
    Such an action is some 3/4 inch shorter than a "conventional' Short Action and could be even shorter for usual BR calibres.
    You perfectly know such a solution exist for Long Range single shot action and suffice to adapt it to accept Remington-type aftermrket triggers.
    R.G.C
     
  10. SmittyJon

    SmittyJon Silver $$ Contributor

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    Going outside the box on this one, Dusty. How about a solenoid-based ignition system? The bolt body serves as shell of the solenoid, and the moveable core, has a short pin attached to fire the primer. The core sits inside the front of the body and doesn't have to be large or move very far. The remaining space would be used for the electronics, and to house a small but powerful Lithium Hydride rechargeable battery. Access to the internal parts and the battery compartment would be through the back of the bolt's body. The trigger for such a system is just a switch that when touched completes the bolt's circuit "firing" it.

    2.0 Replace existing spring based system with a self-contained solenoid-based one. Current trigger's sear would act as a switch when it is pulled.

    Everything would look and function the same as what we use today. A ton of details need to be addressed, but what do you think?

    Chris Mitchell
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  11. JRS

    JRS Silver $$ Contributor

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    Doesn't the Marsh action fit that description?
     
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  12. 86alaskan

    86alaskan

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    EtronX by remington, zero lock time, no moving parts, should be just what the doctor ordered, but it didn't catch on. Seems like kinda what you're looking for.
     
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  13. Grimstod

    Grimstod Machinist, Designer, and Shooter. Gold $$ Contributor

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    Did anyone in benchrest ever try it?
     
  14. sparker

    sparker

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    yes, of course Robert! Now if only I could get my hands on one.

    Scott
     
  15. divingin

    divingin

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    No need to design the system. They've been in use on target guns (Olympic type) for years. Not electrically fired, but the trigger operates a solenoid to drop the firing pin/striker/hammer/whatever.
     
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  16. powderbrake

    powderbrake Silver $$ Contributor

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    Exactly, My Hammerli 152 Free Pistol is electric, with just a contact for the trigger (which rides on ball bearings) You have to manually cock it, and the solenoid releases it.
     
  17. clowdis

    clowdis

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    A friend of mine still has one of these along with a bunch of primers. He doesn't use it anymore, preferring instead to use his regular rifles. According to him he just didn't see any advantage and primers were more expensive.
     
  18. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    You do know we have to do more work to the shorter actions to get the ignition energy needed for top accuracy? I dont use the shorter actions for that reason. Standard short action length or longer, otherwise your adding weight to the firing pin. Lock time has little to do with accuracy, its a sales gimmick. Look at any of the leading edge rifles that are setting group records, especially long range. You will see a trend for more ignition energy and increased lock time VS less and shorter. I increase lock time and energy on almost every rifle I build.
     
  19. dminn1

    dminn1

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    No doubt in the benchrest and f class games lock time needs to take a back seat to optimal ignition energy. When the rifle is fired from the less than steady positions encountered in NRA Highpower, PRS, etc... lock time and the shortening of it would seem to be beneficial. I think the solenoid system as explained above or an electronic system would enable the best of both worlds. A way to optimize primer impact energy and get the minimum lock time possible. It seems to me this would be the next big step in rifle action design and a big payday for the one who perfects and patents it.
     
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  20. Alex Wheeler

    Alex Wheeler Gold $$ Contributor

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    True, it would seem that way. However in practice even rifles shot from position do not seem to suffer from lock time. MAYBE in the the standing position you might see it if your good.
     

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