90VLDs and 2000MR

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by XTR, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. XTR

    XTR

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    Anyone willing to share loads for 90VLDs with 2000MR?

    I'm running them in a 28" Mcgowan 1:7 throated long (Jammed I'm at 2.655OAL).

    The Alliant site lists the load for the 90SMK at 23.8 with a 2.5OAL. I'm working up from there but just wondering what others may have found that works.
     
  2. FroggyOne2

    FroggyOne2

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    27.2 grains with the Berger 90VLD. OAL of 2.670
     
  3. XTR

    XTR

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    Randy, was that moly'd or plain?

    I've just loaded up a little one shot each load test off of the deck up to 25.3 and for one shot the velocity looked like about 2675 or so.
     
  4. FroggyOne2

    FroggyOne2

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    Wade,

    Non moly, V=2950.
     
  5. wc872

    wc872

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    I have a much slower barrel than the others on here. I have a 6.5 twist Kreiger that is 27". I shoot my .223 with a AWC suppressor which was spec'd for a 7mm. I have loaded up to 27.4 grs. 2000MR but it wasn't as accurate in my barrel. So the load I ended up with is Berger Moly 90VLD, Fed 205M primer, 26.4 grs. 2000MR which gives me an average velocity of 2755 fps. With a .030 jam I get a SD of 6 fps. This combo has a 1/2 to 5/8ths minute average @ 1000 yards. That is my normal group size average so I believe it is me that is holding this load from showing it's potential.
    While this load is safe in my rifle, Please start low & work up.
     
  6. XTR

    XTR

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    I still can't get these bullets to shoot in my rifle for squat. I used some stuff for my Service Rifle to blow off and warm the barrel
    . Shooting 77gr Noslers loaded to mag length for my AR jumping .150 shoot under 1/2 MOA, the 90VLDs jammed 10 are shooting closer to a minute or more with every load from 2600FPS to 2900FPS.

    Next I'm going to try a seating depth test the way Berger recommends it from jammed out to 0.150 jump and see what I get. Right now this is pretty pathetic.
     
  7. XTR

    XTR

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    Tomorrows range trip will be:

    Jam 15
    Jump 15
    Jump 45
    Jump 75
    Jump 105
    Jump 135

    all with the same load. If that doesn't find something I don't know what else to do with these things.
     
  8. XTR

    XTR

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    They were only 3 shot groups, and it may be nothing, but it looks as if the jump 45 group if much better (a little under an MOA) than the other groups that were closer to two MOA. Maybe there is something to be found in the 30 to 45 range
     
  9. jsthntn247

    jsthntn247

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    Have you tried any other bullets? If so could you get them to shoot?
     
  10. XTR

    XTR

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    I can shoot 80Amaz's into one hole at 100 and in the .3s to .4s at 200, hell it'll shoot my service rifle mag length 77 Noslers into a little over .5 jumping them about .150, but I've yet to get a repeatable group with 90s that is under 1 MOA, most are closer to 1.5 to 2MOA.

    I've got one more trip to the range with these before they get yard saled. I think I'm seeing something that will work at two possible nodes. I'm playing with seating depth now. Otherwise I'm running the 80 Amax
     
  11. Panzer22

    Panzer22

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    I haven't met a VLD yet that didn't shoot with a .030-.040 jump. First thing I try is .035, and when it starts to open up down the road just back the seater off .005 and it's back to tight. You get a good .010 window in the jump range that will just shoot noticeably better in your .040 jump window. Stay in the middle of that and you will be pleased. Measure your jump from a dirty barrel. That's how it gets used, unless you clean between every round.. Ensures your more centered in that .010 spot. Try it. If that doesent work I will buy all your 90 VLD's from you.
     
  12. XTR

    XTR

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    I took it to the range again today to shot the tests. I should post up a picture. What a joke from the VLDs

    After the jump test it looked like I had a maybe in the range of 30 to 45 jump and at two loads but both 3shot groups were over an inch at 200. (the rest were more like 3 inches if you can call those groups)

    Today I was also testing 80Amax's with 2000MR, never shot them with it so I had 5 loads with 3 shots each jumping 15 thou.

    Barrel has about 100 rounds on it since the last cleaning

    Just to make sure I got the best I could out of the VLDs I shot the lowest Amax load first. COld barrel 3 shots group is .31 MOA at 200.

    Next I shot the VLDs

    I had 5 loaded for each load with 10 thou difference in seating depth. One jumping 40 the other jumping 50.

    First group I quit after 3 shots 1.3MOA group, waste of time
    Second I quit after 2 shots, the shots hit 7 inches apart
    Load 2 first group 2 MOA
    Load 2 second group I quit after the second shot when it hit 3 inches from the first.

    Went back to finish the OCW with the 80Amax

    Second group 0,55 MOA (all vertical
    third group 0.16MOA
    fourth group 1 MOA, it spead out
    5th group 0.225 MOA (came back together)

    I'm pretty much done with 90VLDs. I've shot about 200 of them now in testing with 3 different powders and I've never gotten anything better than a 1MOA group for 3 shots, and every time I've taken that to test the next "group" looks like a shotgun pattern.
     
  13. XTR

    XTR

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    So you can see the difference graphically the Bergers were fired at the top row of dots and the Amax at the bottom.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. r bose

    r bose

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    I see you've said you're using a 7 twist barrel. Possibly the twist is a hair too slow? I've been told barrel manufacturers say 7 twist but truly may be be 7.4 or 7.3. You get my point and that could be very marginal for the 90's. I shoot a 6.5 pacnor 30" and will shoot 90's at 2880 all day long 3/4" groups at 200 yds.

    Just guessing........
     
  15. r bose

    r bose

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    I'm also 40 thou off the lands at with berger 90 VLD's
     
  16. Rtheurer

    Rtheurer

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    Looks like your barrel just does not like them... It happens. Looks like the 80 gr Amax is shooting just fine however, Nice mid range set up.

    RussT
     
  17. XTR

    XTR

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    For whatever reason I've come to the same conclusion. I've still got to work on the Amax load and fiddle with it a bit but it's working OK. I shot it at 600 a couple of weeks ago and had some vertical that may have been me, I don't have much time behind this stock, but I also had a 5 shot string on the right side of the the 10 ring that the guy shooting next to me piped up and asked if they were actually moving my spotter or just running the target up and down.

    I like shooting the little pop gun.
     
  18. r bose

    r bose

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    XTR, you should go to Bergers website and play with the "twist rate stability calculator". A lot of your problems might be answered. I measured the 90's at 1.255 inches. Plug in all the data and see where you come out. Berger states on the website a 1.5 twist rate rating will insure proper stability. No matter what you plug in for a 7 twist barrel, the stability rating is "marginal" at best. AND, the colder it gets outside or the closer you get to sea level, the worse the twist rate stability factor gets.

    I live at sea level and rarely shoot when temps are below 50 degrees and use a 6 1/2 twist barrel. When I enter in my data and use 2875 FPS, at 50 degrees temp and sea level elevation, my stability factor is 1.54. That is worst case scenario for me.

    No matter what speed, temp, or elevation you enter, a 7 twist calculates out to very marginal at best. I think it's wrong of Berger to advertise a 7 will stabilize the 90's when on their website, their own twist rate calculator says a 7 will not reliability do it.
     
  19. NateG

    NateG

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    r bose,

    The conventional wisdom for the 90s has been a 6.5-twist is necessary (because of the stability calculations), however, a few years back when the .223 was added as a permitted Palma cartridge (and with the increasing popularity of F/TR), a number of shooters gave the 90s another shot. A few (Jerry Tierney and Laurie Holland come to mind) found that using slower-than-recommended twists worked much better than would be expected.

    In my personal experience, a 7.5 (or was it 7.25?) worked well with the 90s, however, it was very finicky--much more so than I wanted to deal with, so I gave it up. (And the newer, sleeker, 30 cal bullets reduce the ballistic gains from shooting the 90 grain needles)

    It does seem that most (though certainly not all) of those shooting the 90s from a .223 (or br-based cartridges) bolt gun are shooting them out of twists no faster than 1:7.
     
  20. r bose

    r bose

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    NateG, maybe it's because I live at sea level (actually below sea level in New Orleans), I didn't want to chance using anything slower than a 6 1/2 and I'll say, it's a hammer no matter what brass, primer, powder, I use. I didn't want finicky. I have a 7 twist space gun, 26" tube that shoots the 90's just fine, but who knows in colder temps?

    I understand the 30 cal bullets have come a long way but, I just shot in a 3 day prone match last weekend, totaling 176 rounds and shooting the 223 is so much more forgiving on my shoulder.

    If I would have shot my 308, I'd have to use a 200g-215g bullet with a whole bunch of powder behind it to get the same ballistic results.

    223 cal + .551 BC + 2870 FPS = enjoyable shooting anyday of the week (plus a reduced cost in reloading supplies) :)
     

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