90gr 22br ?

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by djs guns, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. djs guns

    djs guns

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    I'm have a 22br with a 1 in 7- 28 1/2" long barrel throated for 90 grainers. Looking for starter loads. would like to be around 3050 fps. I was thinking vv540 powder or h4350. I have read everything I can find but not much out there. Thanks in advance
     
  2. murwal

    murwal

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    I have a 22BRX shooting 90 grains with Varget 28.4 grs CCI BR4 primers getting 2833 FPS from a 29" barrel Low ES and STD under 15 most times.
    Real nice round to shoot, you should decrease by 10-15% for a BR
     
  3. gstaylorg

    gstaylorg Silver $$ Contributor

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    With a 30" barrel, 2833 fps is about what you'd get using around 25 gr Varget in a .223 Rem case. H4895 will push the 90s at or above 2850 fps in a .223. I think the OP is looking to use the .22BR to push the 90s on the high side of 3000 fps, as opposed to the more mundane velocities that can readily be achieved with other smaller cartridges.
     
  4. djs guns

    djs guns

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    Well said Greg. This barrel is off of my 223 FTR gun I shot in the sierra cup with you. I don't think I will ever make a FTR shooter. Cant stand the wind drift. So Back to the 6 dasher. I'm looking to make a 22br to shoot a local shoot with a hunter class stock. I may be wrong but I'm thinking more speed may keep the bullet on track better at 600. The 223 was great in less wind. I just cant keep up with it at 600. 2' of drift is not for me. Not enough wind flags to keep up with the changes. So yes I'm looking for loads for 600 yds. stuff. Bergers manual is not in the ball park. Was getting that stuff from a 223. By the way I have 1000 sierra 90gr smk's that I'm going to use for this load. And if I need to go to a 22 dasher to get this to work I will. Thanks
     
  5. gstaylorg

    gstaylorg Silver $$ Contributor

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    In the past I've played around on paper with the idea of pushing 90s in a 22BR. My recollection is that upper 2900s to low 3000s is about where you might expect to end up at reasonable operating pressures, but it's been a while since I ran the numbers. If that holds up, you're talking about very similar performance to a 6BR with 105 Hybrids, but probably not as good as a Dasher. There are several people here that have run the 90s in a 22BR, hopefully someone will chime in with some firsthand experience.

    With regard to .223 Rem/90 VLD performance, certainly there are .308/200+ gr bullet combinations that will outperform the .223. However, that comes at the cost of significantly more recoil, which is one reason the .223 with 90s really shines at 600 yd in relatively benign conditions. It's just extremely easy to shoot one with outstanding precision. Wind drift is wind drift, some cartridges and bullets will give you less, but they also generally come at the cost of greater recoil. Just remember that Gene Novaczek won F-TR at the Sierra Cup shooting 90s in a .223. He had to earn it to be sure, but the combination gave him the tools he needed to get the job done. In general, selecting a bullet with a better BC will buy you more in terms of wind resistance than simply pushing a bullet of given BC a little faster. In other words, increasing velocity doesn't normally gain you as much as moving up to the next higher BC class of bullets, whether in the same or a different caliber. Without a doubt pushing the 90s at ~ 3000 fps would buy you a little better resistance to wind deflection than a .223 pushing them in the mid 2800s. But it's not a HUGE improvement. A Dasher pushing 105s at better than 3000 fps would buy you a little more forgiveness, but should still have the relatively mild recoil of the smaller caliber cartridges. Moving up to 6.5-47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmore, or even a straight .284 Win would buy a LOT more resistance to wind deflection, but they would no longer have the mild recoil associated with .22s or 6mms.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  6. djs guns

    djs guns

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    I agree with everything you said. And that being said I shot a 6 br with 107's for a good while. It was not a dasher but I could handle the drift with it. My hat is off to Gene that was great!! And fun to watch. But the 223 is just too much different than my other guns. And I can barley shoot them. If I can get 6br performance out of the 22br I will take it and run. Those 1000 bullets may be all the barrel has in it anyway. By the way it was good to meet you in St. Louis. Was telling someone about your experience with four shots in the target today. Surely someone out there has some info. or has it all been tried and give up on.
     
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  7. stacy

    stacy 2 TIMOTHY 2 VERUS 15 Silver $$ Contributor

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    22 DASHER WILL SERVE YOU BETTER WITH THE 90'S
     
  8. carlsbad

    carlsbad Details matter. Silver $$ Contributor

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    I too am thinking of building a 22br. I've moved from 6br to 6xc so I have brass, dies, and a 6br rifle with a shot out barrel. thought I'd re barrel it 22br to shoot 90s since I'm also building a 223 to shoot 90s in f class.

    I'll be reading this thread with interest. --Jerry
     
  9. Huckleberry75

    Huckleberry75

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    I would think that the Dasher would be better suited to run the 90's at that speed.
     
  10. Steveb

    Steveb

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    I built one several years ago and shot 90's from it. I found that it was extremely sensitive to the winds also and the bullets were the limiting factor. The bullet design isn't as stable as it could be and, in part, the cause of the wind issues. I eventually went away from it and built something else. The 80 grain series of bullets are better bullets for the winds. I did use H4350 in the case and it was extremely accurate. The reason I built it was that, other than the case itself, it used common supplies to my other 223. I used H4350 in it also.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  11. carlsbad

    carlsbad Details matter. Silver $$ Contributor

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    Excellent post. Were you using berger or sierra 90s and 80s?

    thanks,
    jerry
     
  12. gstaylorg

    gstaylorg Silver $$ Contributor

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    BC and velocity tell you what the wind deflection will be for a given bullet under specific wind conditions. The 90 VLD is an outstanding design and is as close to "optimal" as a bullet can be in any characteristic you care to examine. The 80 gr bullets are not better than the 90s in terms of wind deflection. Not even close. I have shot both the Berger 90 VLDs and the 80.5s in F-TR competition for many years and there is simply no comparison. The 90s will shoot inside the 80s by a significant amount in a given wind condition and the difference only becomes greater as the distance increases, exactly as the science of physics and external ballistics (BCs) suggests it should be.
     
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  13. Steveb

    Steveb

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    I was using Berger 90's and, from my experience in 3 rifles over a good period of time, I respectfully disagree with gstaylorg's comments. Not been my experience. I also was not discussing wind deflection but stability of the bullet itself. IMHO, these are 2 distinctly different things!!
     
  14. gstaylorg

    gstaylorg Silver $$ Contributor

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    You can disagree all you want, it won't change the laws of physics. What I said was spot on. The bullet design of the 90s is completely stable if spun in a sufficient twist rate barrel. If you were truly experiencing stability issues, that would suggest you weren't using a sufficient twist rate for that bullet. A minimum twist rate of about 7 is necessary, and some are using as fast as 6.5-twist. Using a twist rate of much slower than 7 will result in poor performance; more specifically, unnecessary loss of BC, which may cause an apparent increase in the effect of the wind. However, this is not a design flaw in the 90 gr bullet, but rather a failure to spin the bullet in a sufficient twist rate barrel.

    In contrast, if you were using a 7-twist or faster barrel, then I'd guess your issues more likely resulted from sub-optimal load development. In many people's hands, the 90s can certainly be much more difficult to tune than something like the 80.5 Fullbore bullet. However, this is also not a design flaw, but rather an inherent property of certain VLD bullets. There have been a number of shooters here and elsewhere that have struggled greatly trying to get the 90s to shoot well in their setups, so if that was part of the issue you had, you wouldn't be alone. On the other hand, some of the ones that persevered and ultimately found the specific load parameters their setups demanded have since come to appreciate the benefits of shooting the 90s. As I said before, the 90 VLD bullet design is not flawed, and there are way too many people have had outstanding success shooting the 90s in competition to support that conclusion.
     
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  15. Steveb

    Steveb

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    Sorry for the late reply but was at a match for the weekend. I totally agree with you about the effect of twist. However, I have to disagree with you about the design of the bullet. Sorry but have too much experience with these bullets and seeing them shot in competition.
     
  16. gstaylorg

    gstaylorg Silver $$ Contributor

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    As I said, you're welcome to your opinion, but it's a misinformed opinion. I've personally loaded and shot this bullet for years, and won 4 State F-Class Championships in the last 2 years using it, 3 mid-range and 1 long-range. You claim to have experience with this bullet, but you apparently weren't experienced enough to get them to shoot. I DO know something about it...it's a fantastic design. Not trying to pick on you personally, but most every time I see or hear someone denigrating the 90 VLD, it's because they didn't know how to load it, or had a rifle that was not set up properly for it. The bullet design itself is a work of art.
     
  17. Steveb

    Steveb

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    I won't be posting further on this.
     
  18. boltman223

    boltman223

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    Or he likes them so much that he doesn't want other people to try them.:D
     
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  19. djs guns

    djs guns

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    I did the ladder test 32.0 gr h4350 shot a .152 group at 100yds. So I loaded some more a week later it shot about the same. Was going to set up croney and then I saw a fly on the target. We can talk about that fly in pastince. I will take it to a 600 yd varmint match for the next test. It will make one great varmint gun at least.
     
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  20. wolfman

    wolfman

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    I'm thinking hard about having a 22BR barrel set up as a trainer for my .308 ftr gun. I can find a couple of spots close by where I can shoot at distance, but local laws require .224 or smaller. I have a1-7" tube sitting here looking for a project, so I'm thinking chamber it for 22BR. Rifle is built on a Panda fclass, so switching tubes is about as easy as it gets.
     
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