7x 57 Mauser?

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by Civilian Sniper, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Civilian Sniper

    Civilian Sniper

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    My wifes grand father just bought me an 1895 Chilean 7x57 mauser as a project gun but I don't know anything about this action or caliber any info would be greatly appreciated
    Thanks,
     
  2. Larryh128

    Larryh128 Site $$ Contributor

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    The 95 is a 2 lug bolt meaning that it doesn't have the addition of the 3rd safety lug at the rear of the bolt. If everything is OK, meaning not severely pitted below the wood and headspace is OK, it's a serviceable rifle,BUT it is a low pressure action. Meaning it is not designed for high intensity rounds that are generating 55-60,000 PSI. Operating range for a 95 is in the 40,000 PSI range. 7 x 57 is a great hunting round
    and US loaded rounds will not exceed the normal safe operating pressures. Imported rounds tend to be significantly higher pressure loads. Norma for one. I personally would have it checked for headspace before getting too far along. If you want to change to a higher intensity round, you need to look at a 98 action.
     
  3. Civilian Sniper

    Civilian Sniper

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    Thanks for the info I had heard about the low pressure action. So how accurate is the 7 x 57 round in comparison to say the other 7mm's? also if I was to re barrel it what would be some good calibers that are considered low pressure that it cod be chambers to?
     
  4. Bulseyetom

    Bulseyetom

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    I still shoot a Model 93 Mauser that I first started hunting with in 1962. I always use the starting loads for a maximum charge. This rifle likes heavier bullets and shoots 160 grain bullets just over 1 1/4" for 3 shoots at 100 yards. Most 140 grain bullets shoot around 2". That is still minute of deer for a rifle 118 years old with a military stock not bedded since 1955 when my dad started shooting it! I can't say those old Mauser actions compare to a new Model 700 but a 7x57 shooting a 160 grain bullet at 2500 fps will kill anything I will ever hunt! I have seen 95 Mausers rebarreled to 308's but I would think that would be a risky move. Modern 7x57's will almost match the 270 and 280 but don't try those velocities with the 2 lug Mausers. Have fun shooting a caliber that has served me well off and on for 50 years. If the truth were known, I probably could have hunted with just that one rifle and never looked back. ;D Tom
     
  5. normmatzen

    normmatzen Site $$ Contributor

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    Actually, the '95 mauser was considered the best of the "small ring" mausers. You have a keeper.

    I have a rifle I am in the process of building which is a BRNO VX24 action with a 7X57 military barrel cut down to 24".. I put the barrelled action into the stock with-out bedding or finishing to see if it was worth completing. Shot 1 1/2 minute !!

    Also, the american manufacturers of ammunition are really careful in their loadings for 7X57. The European specs for these rifles/cartrudge are somewhat heavier loaded than the American loads. Do the research and make your own decision. Problems with the '93/'95 actions are more in theory than in practice. I have a well worn '93 Spanish Mauser that is my "loaner" gun and I use American loading rules because it kills quite well as it is, and it is pretty "tired!"

    The European barrels are made for .285 bullets while we Americans use .284.
     
  6. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

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    The original sporting load for the 7X57mm was a 175gn RNSP at only 2,300 fps and that from 29.3" military rifle barrels. It was (still is) a phenomenal killer of almost any soft-skinned animal and was widely used in Africa for much of the 20th century by settlers and farmers.

    The military load was a 173gn FMJRN at the same MV from Long-Tom rifle barrels and it was this cartridge that the Spanish used to give you (American) guys a bloody nose in the Spanish-American war, and which the Boer Kommandos used to give us (Brits) an even bloodier nose in the South African war of 1898-1902. This was with Spanish M1893 long rifles and 1895 carbines. The Chilean '95 will have a lot in common with the latter, and I presume is German made under contract (by DWM or its predecessor Ludwig Loewe)? These contract Mausers were all very well made, to a standard that would cost a fortune today given the large amount of hand-fitting and huge number of skilled machining operations. If the rifle is in good condition, I wouldn't change it from its original military specification one bit, but that's me as I used to collect and shoot these sorts of rifles before I caught the precision shooting bug.

    I had a DWM M1895 Boer long rifle many years back with straight out bolt handle, just like the Spanish '93s that were used on San Juan Hill against Teddy Roosevelt. It was great shooter despite a mismatched bolt and looking like a POS. It came from the cadet armoury of one of the great English Public (ie private, fee-paying) schools and no doubt came back to Britain as a souvenir of the Boer War.

    I loaded the one charge of 44gn Viht N160 behind everything - 139gn Hornady BTSP, 154gn something I forget and various 170-175gn RN/PSP bullets - all mild charges. A similar load of IMR or H4831sc will give similar results. QuickLOAD says 44gn N160 behind a 170gn Sierra SPRN produces around 37,000 psi, same load of H4831sc even less and the IMR version around 45,000 psi. These rifles are usually throated on the long side, so really work best with long heavy bullets in the 160-175gn weight range.

    Try it in 7X57 first before considering rebarrelling. If you want a .308W, buy a Remy 700 instead!

    Laurie,
    York, England
     
  7. 2506

    2506

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    I built a rifle for one of my friends that had a 95 Mauser barreled action that his dad gave him when he was a youngster. His dad used the rifle for deer and someone broke into his house and stole it and was leaving the house when his dad pulled into the driveway. The robber threw the rifle down and ran away. The stock broke into so the dad just bought himself a new Rem rifle. My friend remembered he had the old action about 20 years later and brought it to me to see what I thought. The barrel had been cut back to 22" and had been done correct. The bore looked like it was new. It had new open sights put on it and the whole thing had a really good HOT BLUE done to it. I took it and drilled and tapped the action for a Leupold one piece mount milling the clip guide down. I cut the bolt handle off and made a new one on the lathe and welded it on. I made a single stage adjustable trigger out of the original double stage military trigger and got it to break crisp at 3 lb. I found a composite stock and glassed the action into it. I put a world class Tasco variable I think it was a 3 -12X40 scope I had laying around on it. I got some new Rem cases and just to try it out picked 45 grs IMR 4350 with some Hornady 154 gr SP bullets loaded to magazine length. I bore sighted it and shot it at 25 yards and dialed from where I aimed to where the bullet struck then moved to 100 yards. I fired two shots to see if it would group before I went to dialing. It cut bullet holes. I dialed to where I wanted the zero and shot a 5 shot group SLOWLY letting it cool between shots. I had a raged hole group on the thin side of 1/2" outside to outside. I tried to purchase that rifle from my friend but he would not sale. He has killed a good number of critters from groundhogs up to deer with that rifle and load over the past 15 years. I did not have a chrno back then but taking a SWAG probably going around 2500 fps. Put that bullet where it is supposed to go and it will kill most anything in North America. Bell used the 7mm Mauser to kill elephant and most everything else in Africa with the 170 FMJ. He was a good shot and brain shot everything though.
     
  8. Civilian Sniper

    Civilian Sniper

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    thanks for all the great information, now i cant wait to get it (California 10 day wait period) and start tinkering. i was only considering the re barrel if the barrel was in too bad of shape but i would love to keep it the original 7mm if i can. What kind of scope mount can you put on a 95 action a 2 piece or 1 piece and if any one from Utah out there is there any good gunsmiths you recommend for this ?
     
  9. Larryh128

    Larryh128 Site $$ Contributor

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    7 x 57 is a truly great round and very capable of exceptional accuracy. Bell killed a bunch of elephants with one so it will tackle the big stuff with the correct pills. Elelphants? Not so much. It was also known in the sporting world as a 275 Rigby.
     
  10. 2506

    2506

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    You will have to have the action drilled and tapped for a scope mount. Leupold makes a one piece mount for the 95 Mauser that you do not have to mill the charger notch hump off the action. Leupold type mounts are really the best for use on these old rifles that you have to drill and tap because if you get your holes a little bit off dead center you have the windage screws on the mount to adjust for this.
     
  11. TonyR

    TonyR

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    I just went through a bunch of Mauser questions myself after a friend gave me a couple of barreled actions. Here is a link to a company in Utah that makes parts for Mausers including Blackburn triggers. I am sure they will have the names of gunsmiths that work on them.

    http://cncspecialtyproducts.com/Home_Page.html

    Also, I found the people on Mauser Central forum very knowledgable and help. Same sort of place as this forum.

    http://www.mausercentral.com/forum/index.php

    Have fun and good luck with your project.
     
  12. Civilian Sniper

    Civilian Sniper

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    i cant seem to find a model 95 scope base but i did find a 96 1 piece will that work for a 95 action?
     
  13. K22

    K22

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    One of the best cartridges ever developed, just ask Larry Potterfield at Midway USA.
     
  14. 2506

    2506

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    Yes the 96 Mauser base will work on the 95. They are the same size action.
     
  15. Outrider27

    Outrider27 Site $$ Contributor

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    You'll probably find the 7mm Mauser a really useful, versatile cartridge for all but the largest north American game. If, in the end, you need to rebarrel it, one of the prettiest rifles I ever saw was a rebarrelled, restocked '95 Mauser built as a mountain rifle in .257 Roberts. The pressure range for that cartridge is (in non-+p loads) right where you want to be for the '95 action.
     
  16. olympian

    olympian

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    This was probably true until the m1896 Swedish Mauser, but certainly not after the m1896.

    The German built m95s are quite good rifles and the 7x57mm is an excellent cartridge. The Spanish m95s are not nearly as high a quality rifle.
     
  17. PJGunner

    PJGunner

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    The 7x57 Mauser is one of my all time favorite rounds. Currently I have a Ruger #1A, Wincherster M70 Featherweight and a custom Mauser all chambered to the 7x57 Mauser round.
    I expect I'll get a bit of static on what I have to say but Kimber imported a bunch of 1893 (93) Mausers that had been rebarreled to 7.62 nATO. :eek: Now hese are Spanish mausers which for some reaon have a bit of a poor reputation. Spain's assualt rifle was chambered to the 7.62 CETME cartridge which has the exact same dimensions as the .308 Win./7.62 NATO. However, the CETME round was loaded to a significantly lower pressure and the military CETME rifle had problems with full power NATO ammo. Anyway, Kimber imported these rifles, put them in, I believe Ramline stocks, altered the bolt handles and drilled and tapped them for sccopes. They did have the rifles proof tested by the H.P. White Laboratory to assure their safety with .308 Win. Ammo.
    The 93 Mauser is easily identified by looking at the front of the bolt. The bolt face will be flat on the bottom. The 95 will be round on the bottom like most conventional bolt actions. The 93 has no safety third lug while the M95 is supposed to use IIRC the root of the bolt handle as a somewhat safety lug.
    Years back, I once owned an M93 Mauser made at the Oviedo Arsenal in Spain and was date stamped 1916. Some small British gun shop at one time made it into a neat light weight sport along the style of Rigby. Because of the "supposed" weakness, I never loaded ammo for that rifle over factory specs. I guess one of my dumbest moves was selling that rifle. :( I killed a lot of deer with it. One of the best bullets I ever found was the Sierra 170 gr. round nose. very accurate and even at 2300 FPS would really knock a deer down, especially in the rain forest of Northwest California when I hunted there a very long time ago. Sadly Sierrra does not make it anymore.
    In current factory ammo, I've only shot the Winchester 145 gr. Power Point and the federal 175 gr. round nose. The Winchester is very accurate in my rifles, sub-MOA in two and just a hair over MOA in the Ruger. I don't think the Federal is delivering anywhere near factory advertised velocity and I'm sad to say while I've only lost two deer in my hunting career, one was shot with that Federal load. Whether it was a box of bad ammo or federal just ain't loading them to spec I can't say but when I finally got a chronograph, the rounds that were left over from that box averaged 2100 FPS. Not good.
    Well all I can add is properly handloaded the 7x57 is an excellent round. Loaded with a good 140 gr. bullet deer are in trouble. a premium 150 to 160 gr. bullet and elk better run. With a stout 175 gr. bullet, even the great bears would be in a tight spot provided the shooter kept his cool and placed the shot as precisely as possible. That's what worked for Bell. He preferred brain and heart shots whenever possible and IIRC, the 7x57, or .275 Rigby as he called itwould do the job. FWIW, I've also seen a rifle marked .276 WR for Westley-Richards but it too was a 7x57. One of the world's great rounds.
    Paul B.
     
  18. Civilian Sniper

    Civilian Sniper

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    Ok so I finally got the rifle and got it checked out by my gunsmith the head space is good and the riflings are Sharp downside is its got some rust down in the bore that think I can get out with a good run through of JBs but we will see I may have to rebarell but hopefully not.
    So my big question is my wife grandfather sent me some hand loads for the 7x57 and they are 175g round nose with 37g of H4895 and also a second set loaded with 139g soft point and 30g H4895 now I went through my loading manuals and could not find data matching these loads and the 37g load seems really hot to me and I know this is low pressure action so just want to get your guys advice on theses loads
    thanks

    Brett
     
  19. Bulseyetom

    Bulseyetom

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    Brett, my 1960's vintage Lyman Manual shows loads for the 7x57 Mauser tested in a Model 95 Mauser and IMR 4895 shows 35 grain starting load at 2237 fps and max of 39.0 grains at 2512 fps from the 29" military barrel.

    For the 139 grain load with IMR 4895, it lists starting at 38.0 for 2564 fps and max of 43.0 for 2881 fps. The max load was also the most accurate tested for that bullet.

    Could it be that the 30 grain load is miss-marked and is actually 40? I actually dug out my father's Speer #5 Manual from which he loaded for my 93 Mauser around 1961 when I started shooting it and he loaded 44.0 grains of surplus 4895, 42 grains of IMR 4064 and 51 grains of surplus 4831. I can remember that we used to take our empty cans to his co-worker to fill with both 4895 and 4831 powders that they went together on and bought by the drum. This thread brought back such memories that I actually reloaded about 40 rounds using the old Lyman 310 last week with 160 grain bullets for an upcoming hog hunt. I had to take off the old Weaver K2.5 with a Lee Dot and put another scope on as that old scope was kind of hard to see through! Good luck with your 7x57 Tom
     
  20. PJGunner

    PJGunner

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    My latest Sierra manual shows a start load for their 140 gr. bullet as 34.2 gr. and a max load at 40.5 gr. That ne grain difference won't mean squat.
    I had to go to the Sierra second edition for their 170 gr. RN (again the weight difference isn't that significant) and they start at 34.4 grr and max out ot 38.8 gr. The big difference is they used IMR-4895 rather than the "H".
    The fourth ed. Hornady manual maxes out with IMR-4895 at 41.9 gr.
    The 47th Ed. Lyman maxed out with 39.0 gr. of IMR-4895.
    The 41st ED Lyman shows a max of 39.0 gr. but not what type of 4895.
    JMHO, but I do not trust some of the data in the Lyman manuals. When data printed in 1964 has not changed and is still posted in their latest manual, I hav strong doubt as to it's usability.
    I dunno when those 175 gr. bullet loads were made but at one time, IMR-4895 and H-4895 used exactly the same data.. They were considered to be the same powder.
    I never used it in the 7x57 but did use a lot of the "H" variety in the 30-07. It was cheaper than the IMR version and made up a decent deer load.
    Now I'm going to base my comment on two things. First, that both powders were considered to be the same in the 41st Ed. Lyman. Second, they included the comment that the max load of 39.0 gr. should be reduced by two full grains which would match your 37.0 gr. load. I'm of the thought that theywill most likely be safe in your gun but the final decision is yours.
    The next thing would be to decide to either shoot them or pull the bullets and reload them. I'm thinking they're probably OK to shoot but the choice is yours.
    Paul B.
     

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