6XC Peterson Brass?

Discussion in '6PPC, 6-6.5x47, 6XC, 6 Rem, 243' started by FJIM, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. FJIM

    FJIM

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    I just ordered some 6XC Peterson Brass from Graf n Son I read where it was the first production run and not quite up to Norma Brass quality. I thought for the price of 100 cases I would give it a try.
    Any one using this Brass ? When will the new Norma spec Peterson 6XC Brass be out ?
     
  2. morpheus

    morpheus Jim Sokolowski Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have been using it (small rifle primer). The point is - the quality is perfectly fine (no compromise there) but the case capacity is less than Norma. I was, however, able to load this brass a bit hotter than the Norma brass without the pressure signs that I got with the Norma brass. That being said, I will use this brass for mid-range and then I plan to buy some of the "phase 2" brass with higher capacity for long range. Not sure when this will be available though - hopefully not too long.
     
  3. FJIM

    FJIM

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    Hun I thought I read where had to run it part throttle due to less capacity and s o f t e r head. You know if they have less capacity and you can run a hotter load with no pressure signs that would be ideal for longer range. well I will get them and start at 39.0 and work up to my 40.5 with a drop tube.lol and if the primers fall out I will just toss it or maybe melt it down and sell it for scrap.
     
  4. morpheus

    morpheus Jim Sokolowski Gold $$ Contributor

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    As I noted above, I am using the Small Rifle Primer Peterson brass, so in my experience, this introduces additional variables when comparing pressure signs to the Norma Large Rifle Primer brass. I ran the Peterson brass up to 40.0 grains with the 115 HBN DTACs in my rifle with no pressure signs, but I was not seeking out a maximum with this particular load. Your mileage may vary...

    Again, I would not consider this brass to be worse quality than the Norma brass - just lower capacity. I highly doubt Peterson would knowingly release sub-par brass to the public.
     
  5. FJIM

    FJIM

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    well yes they did and that is why a bag of 100 cases are 46.00 bucks instead of a box of 50 at 50.00 bucks. Hey I will give them a try and see how they work for me.
     
  6. FJIM

    FJIM

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    well this is a real brief test and is mostly my opinion of them..I just pulled 12 cases out of the bag. ran through my FL bushing die just as a safe measure. I loaded four 3 shot groups. RL17 39.0, 39.5, 40.0, 40.5 I just used a regular powder funnel to fill the case and the 40.5gr load there was plenty of room in the case, I think I could get 1 or 2 more grains in there. I loaded a 105 HVLD .030 off--that probably is not my seating depth but I was pressed for time and want to know if the cases would hold up. CCI BR2 primer. I shot 200 yards is some terrible conditions 85 deg F. bad cool switchy wind and mirage so bad it was hard to make out the bull. So my groups were not great 1.5" or so at 200 Yards. Its not a bench gun.
    39.0 gr 1-3,084 FPS
    2-3,099
    3-3,082

    39.5 gr 1-3,138 FPS
    2-3,125
    3-3,126

    40.0 gr 1-3,172 FPS
    2-3,151
    3-3,186

    40.5 gr 1-3,247 FPS
    2-3,218
    3-3,215
    40.5 heavy bolt lift, ejector mark, hard click top of bolt lift. Too HOT !
    So I got home first thing I did was resize one of the 40.5 gr cases. cleaned the primer pocket, seated a primer. went in snug. Ah not tight but snug. next seated a bullet on empty case just wanted to feel the neck tension. ok good. So the cases are useable. The 40.0 gr load will hold up and work fine on this brass. Really I get about the same on Norma Brass. I feel the high temp and high humidity was a factor on the velocity and shooting today. Hot barrel and Hot ammo. But the brass seems good to me and very useable. I haven't spent a lot of time going over it but it looks GREAT. and a brief test showed it should work fine. powder was weighed on a GEM Pro 250 and it does weigh .5 grain heaver than the RCBS I was using. in other words 40.5 gr off the Gem Pro is hot in a Norma cases also. Actually it looks real close to the same to me. But this was just a few cases I shot. For 46.00 bucks a hundred I will buy another 100 cases.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  7. hawkeyeshoooer

    hawkeyeshoooer

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    This is some great review, I have been searching the internet for some info on the Peterson brass, thanks a lot pal.
     
  8. tomswede

    tomswede

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    Got 300 of them to try. Brass is very uniform. A quick check of weight indicates that they are somewhat heavier than the Norma brass.
    Loaded them with my mild standard load that I use in the Norma brass. Primers and bullets seated uniformly.
    Shot a prone sling string at 600, 200-16x. My best score ever. Brass looks fine after firing. Will chronograph at a later time. I’m very happy with this brass.
     
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  9. Hoot

    Hoot

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    Coming into the 6XC cold. I'm not a competition shooter but I love reloading and working up recipes. My Rem 700 VLS has a 6mm Rem barrel that is shot out judging from the view from the borescope. Chose a Criterion 6XC Remage barrel because I like the particulars of that caliber and its track record. I have a friend who reps Peterson and since I'm not chasing the last few fps that I can get, I had him order me 300 of the 1st Gens. None of those decisions can be reversed but in considering a set of dies I was considering the Forster Bench Rest FL die set. I however, don't want to wind up with the necks being a real squeeze play if the brass is thick there as well. I can opt instead for an S type FL die. Remember, I'm a reloading for accuracy fan, not a competitor at any level, other than my 64 yr old eyes.

    Any advice will be read and chewed on while waiting for the barrel and brass to arrive. If I had them already, I could deduce through measurement, that which I don't know.

    BTW, until I retire in 2 1/2 years, 300 brass represents a lifetime supply. Only get about 3 hrs range time a week (cooler Saturday mornings). Also, am busy with other calibers at the same time.

    Thanks,

    Hoot
     
  10. FJIM

    FJIM

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    Hoot I would advise to go Redding FL S bushing die and a forester ultra seater die. works well for me and a few other guy's use same set up and it seems to work well.
     
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  11. Hoot

    Hoot

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    Thanks for the advice. That was one combination I was considering, despite the added expense. Hoping to get this right the first try as opposed to my usual, buy every wrong thing available. :( Whichever way I go, I can get most dies locally, so I'll wait until I can lay a mic to some of the brass. Then using some candle smoke, see how the new brass fits the chamber with a bullet, as they come out of the bag. Should be able to connect the dots as to which bushing(s) to get. Really don't want to have to turn or ream necks. A lot'll depend upon how the chamber is cut. The rest I can massage.

    Hoot
     
  12. FJIM

    FJIM

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    You are way over thinking it. The 6XC is quite simple. redding FL S die a .268 bushing and you will be in business.
    You can get a .267 bushing I use it some times. but the .268 is standard and will work what ever brass you use. Sometimes I will use a .267 to get more bullet grip or heavy neck tension-as it will give you more velocity or work hardened brass sometimes. it seems the .268 is just about right. Since it is a already made barrel it is most likely just a 6XC chamber. the 6XC II chamber uses a different die. If its just a 6XC chamber get the redding FL S die and a .268 bushing. I like the Forester ultra seater die. I feel it works as good as any competition seater die and at a good price.
    Although I have a few redding competition seater dies and the forester is less than half the price and work as well as they are the original ultra seater die people. Dont get too caught up in the 6XC chamber and 6XC II chamber. The 6XC II chamber has a little more room in the web and depending on reamer more neck clearance and a longer throat. I had them both and still have my just 6XC chamber now and it works the same. if you dont know you can look up 6XC II and get all the info on it.
     
  13. Hoot

    Hoot

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    Thanks again for the advice. Wanting everything to arrive close to one another, I called Peterson this morning and Ben said to get the .267 bushing for their brass. So I have a FL S Type sizing die, a .267 TiN plated bushing and a Forster seating die en route from Midway. I was going to just get the polished steel bushing, but fell for the TiN "snake oil" instead. Fool and their money...

    This will be a fun project. Now I need to sell my lifetime supply of new 6mm Rem brass and dies, to offset the costs. Is the Marketplace sub-forum here a good choice or would GB be better in terms of not getting low-balled?

    Hoot

    Edit: I can always get a .268 bushing if the neck tension is too great.
     
  14. Hoot

    Hoot

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  15. Hoot

    Hoot

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    I think there's trouble in Mudville.

    Got to the range this morning (65 deg) to do Criterion's recommended barrel break-in. Since the 6XC is "off the reservation", I've tunneled around the web, saving tidbits of load data to get an idea of what to try from different forums. Can't even model it in QuickLoad. All the 6mm bullets I have were geared toward varmint shooting, so I tried my 87gr Vmax for my initial load to break the barrel in as its the heaviest I currently have on hand. Based on a QL table published by David Tubbs in the Nosler forum, for the 90gr Accutip and given my new Peterson brass held 48gr H2O, I reduced that table's load from 46.6gr RL-19 at 2.755 COL to 42, 43 and 44gr of at 2.620 COL, which is an .030 jump. His throat must be longer than mine. The loads shot great in terms of accuracy with the 42 gr having 4 shots into .236, the 43gr had 4 shots into .403 and the 44gr throwing all 5 shots into .338 at 100 yds but every bolt lift was stiff, with a shallow ejector swipe and more primer migration into the firing pin hole than I'm used to seeing. The Rem 7 1/2 primers weren't flattened. Far from it. The edge radius was still there on all three charges. Here's the weird part. The degree of those indicators went down as my loads went from 42 to 43 and finally 44gr. If this were too stiff a load, I would have expected them to get worse as I went up. I was cleaning after every shot including wiping out the chamber with Trichloroethane solvent before the next shot. Its a very thorough degreaser. With the time needed to thoroughly clean the bore after every shot, the barrel never got above ambient temperature.

    At that point I began to question the headspace. I set my Remage barrel to 2.520 using a PTG Go gauge. The spent cases had grown to 2.520 on the money, but having read some forum threads about this kind of problem made me go back and actually check what the new Peterson cases were starting out at. They ranged from 2.508-2.509 at the .375 datum. I've never fireformed a caliber but .012 seemed like a lot of growth given a No-Go is only .005 longer than a Go gauge. Might they be bouncing ahead of the firing pin strike and jumping backwards after ignition before fireforming forward? Is that much case growth good for the brass? I thought about loading some more up with the COL putting the bullet up against the lands (2.650 per my Stoney Point OAL Gauge) to see if the swipes and primer migration stop? I really don't want to re-headspace the barrel to get it closer to the length these Peterson cases were made to. BTW, the overall case length they started out at was 1.888-1.893 which is less that the 1.900 trim spec. This is weird but despite them growing .012 longer at the shoulder datum, they only grew to .001-.005 longer overall.

    Lastly, despite the 42-43-44 gr charges filling my case almost too much to seat the bullets (44gr), is there such a thing as too little chamber pressure to anchor the case to the walls? That's always a challenge with the 450 Bushmaster I reload.

    My head is full of quandary right now, but that .338 5-shot, 100 yd, cold, clean bore group made the tedium of shoot and clean after every shot all the more bearable! [​IMG]

    Hoot
     
  16. FJIM

    FJIM

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    You are using small primers brass ? If you are you will always crater the primer using a Remington 700 unless you bush the firing pin... Use a CCI 450 mag primer... you should have went with the large primer brass.
    I am not a expert on headspace issues but I thought the gauges were .010 anything over .010 is too much headspace.
    My 6XC's were set at .007 as one smith I talked to said they had poor luck with headspace under .005 on a few.
    If it was me I would try some H4350 loads start in maybe 38.0 grs should be a mild load. Maybe try RL17 I have no experience with RL19 in the 6XC so I dont know how it reacts. H4350 is kind of the go to powder in the XC with RL17 a close second. As most powders shoot well in the XC just that the pressure diag using H4350 or RL17 is well known.
     
  17. Hoot

    Hoot

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    Thanks for the tip. I couldn't resist $30/100 for the Petersons from a local friend who is a Rep . i have H4350 and was just looking to use up the RL-19 since I don't use it anymore (until today), it trended lower in pressure and this was just breaking in the barrel. It seemed to foul less over the course of those 15 shots. Haven't looked inside with my borescope yet. Probably do that tomorrow.
    In case anyone was interested, the RL-19 42gr averaged 3033 with an SD of 12, 43gr averaged 3100 w/ SD of 14 and 44gr averaged 3183 w/ SD of 9. I do prefer Hodgdon Extreme powders as we have wild temp swings up here.

    Next Range session will be for performance and I'll definitely give the H4350 an at bat. I have lots of Rem 7 1/2 primers but can pick up a brick of CCI 450s locally. I take it their SS shell is harder than the Rem brass shell?

    Hoot

    For anyone else perusing this newbie's forage into a new caliber, I'd take any recipes for 58 Vmax, 75 Vmax and 70 Blitzkings. Better yet, if anyone has a good QuickLoad workup for this case, PM me. It's darn close to a 6 Creedmoor but there's no QL data for that either.

    Thanks again. Already loving this caliber.

    Hoot
     
  18. tomswede

    tomswede

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    Remington 7 1/2 BR primers are very hard. I have used a lot of them in my AR’s including some fairly high pressure loads for 80’s. The headspace you have seem excessive. My rifle is about .002 over a min gage and if I remember right when I measured that resulted in about .006 clearance for the Peterson brass. I have used R19, H4350 and Norma 203B in my XC’s ( have only used 105gr class bullets). 203B has done really well.
     
  19. AckleymanII

    AckleymanII Gold $$ Contributor

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    I got much better accuracy when using 107's with H4350 with Rem 7 1/2 vs 450's which blew the groups. Bug holes abound.

    6 Xc simply a very easy case to tune with great barrel life.
     
  20. FJIM

    FJIM

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    I had a old Hart action in 6BR and a rem 700 and they always cratered small rifle primers so I stuck with the CCI 450's and in 15 years of shooting never blew a CCI 450 primer. Plus shot them in extreme cold to extreme heat and always had more consistent accuracy with the 450's. So I can always recommend the CCI 450 with confidence plus I shot them in 6.5 creed at -25 deg F . They have always been the best for me.
     

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