6BR with 70 gr SMK and H4895 loads

Discussion in '6BR, 6BR Improved & Wildcats' started by Otter, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Otter

    Otter Site $$ Contributor

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    Was going to try H4895 with 70 grain Sierra matchking bullets. Anyone have suggestions for a starting and max load?

    I can't find any load data. Got load data for IMR4895, but don't know how the two compare with regards to load. They show the same for burn rate but I know that doesn't always match up in load data.
     
  2. jonbearman

    jonbearman I live in new york state,how unfortunate ! Site $$ Contributor

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    Just out of curiosity,why 4895 for this weight? Why not h322 or varget.
     
  3. rellimt

    rellimt

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    I use the same load I use for the rest of my 6BR loads. 29.5 of H4895, shoots well for 200 yard offhand and rapid fire and I dont have to reset the powder measure.

    Tony Miller
     
  4. bozo699

    bozo699 Site $$ Contributor

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    Tony sounds pretty close, I use 32.8 grains in my Dasher and it's HOT!! I think I would start off at about 28.0 grains and work up, although you probably will be able to reach about 30.0 grains JMHO's
    just a side note I was shooting 107 SMK's
    Wayne.
     
  5. bozo699

    bozo699 Site $$ Contributor

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    Jon,
    I don't know about the 6br but in the improved Dasher version H-4895 is the preferred powder for 1K BR work, My boys 6brx does real well with Varget as you mentioned, I haven't tried the H-322 yet but it works well in my .223AI
    Wayne.
     
  6. Otter

    Otter Site $$ Contributor

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    Jon, have used both H322 and Varget and they shot okay. Figured I would try H4895 just to be trying it.

    Wayne - since I'm using 70 grain bullets I'm figuring a couple grains over the load you are using.

    Will hold off though until I get some more solid info.
     
  7. ReedG

    ReedG Site $$ Contributor

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    Otter, IMR-4895 and H-4895 are right beside each other in the powder burn rate chart so I don't see any problem with taking Sierra's load data for IMR and reducing by one grain and working up. For the 70-gr. MatchKing, they start with 30.1 of IMR-4895. You should be able to start at 29.0 and work up without any problem with H-4895. Don't hesitate to try Varget, though.
     
  8. ehkempf

    ehkempf

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    I am using 30.7 g of H4895 with either a Sierra 70 g BTHP or Berger 70 g Match. According to Hodgdon’s web site 31.0 g is max.

    http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

    Ed
     
  9. bozo699

    bozo699 Site $$ Contributor

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    Otter,
    As I stated I was running a Dasher, which has 10% more case capacity then a standard 6br which equates to about 3.5 grains more,...DO NOT TRY A COUPLE OVER MY LOAD!! I know this may sound odd but I have found with the 6br and improved versions that Max powder chg is max powder chg no matter the bullet, my sons 6brx uses 34.5 grains of Varget with 85 grain SMK's for vermin or 107 SMK's for the 1K yard line. I think H-4895 is a very clean burning powder and a good choice for the 6br but start at 28 or 29 grains and work up!

    Another important thing is just because IMR-4895 and H-4895 are right beside each other on a burn rate chart doesn't mean you can substitute charges with one another, and as you can see this chart doesn't show them side by side so there is a difference in burn rate charts, so which one is correct, Reeds, mine or someone else's?

    1. R-1 (Norma) 59. HS-7 (Hodgdon) 117. Varget (Hodgdon)
    2. N310 (Vihtavuori) 60. Blue Dot (Alliant) 118. 5000 (Vectan)
    3. Titewad (Hodgdon) 61. 571 (Winchester) 119. AR2208 (ADI)
    4. AS- 30N (ADI) 62. N105 (Vihtavuori) 120. 4064 (IMR)
    5. Nitro 100 (Accurate) 63. No. 9 (Accurate) 121. 4064 XMR (Accurate)
    6. Bullseye (Alliant) 64. Enforcer (Ramshot) 122. 2520 (Accurate)
    7. Solo 1000 (Accurate) 65. 4100 (Scot) 123. 4320 (IMR)
    8. Red Diamond (Scot) 66. Steel (Alliant) 124. N203 (Norma)
    9. AS (Vectan) 67. 2400 (Alliant) 125. N140 (Vihtavuori)
    10. Red Dot (Alliant) 68. N110 (Vihtavuori) 126. N540 (Vihtavuori)
    11. Promo (Alliant) 69. Lil Gun (Hodgdon) 127. 2700 (Accurate)
    12. Titegroup (Hodgdon) 70. R123 (Norma) 128. Big Game (Ramshot)
    13. No. 2 (Accurate) 71. H110 (Hodgdon) 129. Reloader 15 (Alliant)
    14. American Select (Alliant) 72. 296 (Winchester) 130. H380 (Hodgdon)
    15. AA Plus (Winchester) 73. AR2205 (ADI) 131. 760 (Winchester)
    16. Clays (Hodgdon) 74. SR-4759 (IMR) 132. Brig 4351 (Scot)
    17. N320 (Vihtavuori) 75. N120 (Vihtavuori) 133. H414 (Hodgdon)
    18. Competition (Ramshot) 76. 4227 (IMR) 134. N150 (Vihtavuori)
    19. Royal D (Scot) 77. H4227 (Hodgdon) 135. N550 (Vihtavuori)
    20. WST (Winchester) 78. 5744 XMR (Accurate) 136. 4350 XMR (Accurate)
    21. AP- 50N (ADI) 79. 410 (Alliant) 137. 4350 (IMR)
    22. HP38 (Hodgdon) 80. N130 (Vihtavuori) 138. 7000 (Vectan)
    23. AO (Vectan) 81. SP-3 (Vectan) 139. AR2209 (ADI)
    24. 452AA (Winchester) 82. 680 (Winchester) 140. H4350 (Hodgdon)
    25. 453 (Scot) 83. N200 (Norma) 141. N204 (Norma)
    26. 231 (Winchester) 84. 1680 (Accurate) 142. Hunter (Ramshot)
    27. Zip (Ramshot) 85. AR2207 (ADI) 143. Reloader 19 (Alliant)
    28. 700X (IMR) 86. H4198 (Hodgdon) 144. N160 (Vihtavuori)
    29. Green Dot (Alliant) 87. N133 (Vihtavuori) 145. N560 (Vihtavuori)
    30. AS- 50N (ADI) 88. 4198 (IMR) 146. 4831 (IMR)
    31. International Clays (Hodgdon) 89. BM1 (ADI) 147. Brig 4831 (Scot)
    32. 473AA (Winchester) 90. Brig 4197 (Scot) 148. AR2213SC (ADI)
    33. HS-5 (Hodgdon) 91. 2015 XMR (Accurate) 149. N205 (Norma)
    34. WSL (Winchester) 92. Brig 3032 (Scot) 150. 3100 XMR (Accurate)
    35. Unique (Alliant) 93. Reloader 7 (Alliant) 151. WMR (Winchester)
    36. Universal Clays (Hodgdon) 94. 3031 (IMR) 152. H4831 (Hodgdon)
    37. N330 (Vihtavuori) 95. Benchmark (Hodgdon) 153. MRP (Norma)
    38. AP- 70N (ADI) 96. BM2 (ADI) 154. Reloader 22 (Alliant)
    39. Power Pistol (Alliant) 97. N201 (Norma) 155. 785 (Winchester)
    40. SR-7625 (IMR) 98. Brig 322 (Scot) 156. H450 (Hodgdon)
    41. HS-6 (Hodgdon) 99. AR2219 (ADI) 157. Mag Pro (Accurate)
    42. Silhouette (Ramshot) 100. H322 (Hodgdon) 158. N165 (Vihtavuori)
    43. WAP (Winchester) 101. X-Terminator (Ramshot) 159. WXR (Winchester)
    44. N340 (Vihtavuori) 102. 2230 (Accurate) 160. 7828 (IMR)
    45. 540 (Winchester) 103. 748 (Winchester) 161. 8700 (Accurate)
    46. Herco (Alliant) 104. Reloader 10X (Alliant) 162. H1000 (Hodgdon)
    47. WSF (Winchester) 105. BLC-2 (Hodgdon) 163. AR2217 (ADI)
    48. SR-4756 (IMR) 106. AR2206 (ADI) 164. Magnum (Ramshot)
    49. AP- 100 (ADI) 107. 2460 (Accurate) 165. Reloader 25 (Alliant)
    50. Solo 1250 (Accurate) 108. H335 (Hodgdon) 166. AR2225 (ADI)
    51. 3N37 (Vihtavuori) 109. TAC (Ramshot) 167. Retumbo (Hodgdon)
    52. 800X (IMR) 110. H4895 (Hodgdon) 168. H870 (Hodgdon)
    53. No. 7 (Accurate) 111. 2495 XMR (Accurate) 169. N170 (Vihtavuori)
    54. Longshot (Hodgdon) 112. AR2206H (ADI) 170. 24N41 (Vihtavuori)
    55. Solo 1500 (Scot) 113. Reloader 12 (Alliant) 171. 50 BMG (Hodgdon)
    56. True Blue (Ramshot) 114. 4895 (IMR) 172. AR2218 (ADI)
    57. N350 (Vihtavuori) 115. Brig 4065 (Scot) 173. 20N29 (Vihtavuori)
    58. 3N38 (Vihtavuori) 116. N135 (Vihtavuori)
     
  10. Otter

    Otter Site $$ Contributor

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    Wayne, the burn chart I have is quite a bit different regarding where H4895 falls. I think I got mine off Varmint Al's website. I learned a long time ago burn charts are guidelines and should never be used to develop loads off of.

    The fact I'm not getting many specific suggestions tells me I'm probably on the wrong track with this powder. But regardless, I will do some testing.

    Since I first posted I've discovered that Hodgdon's H4895 max load with 70gr Nosler Ballistic Tips is 31 grains. However when I checked the Nosler load data, they show a max load of 32 grains. Nosler data is almost always conservative and usually a grain or two below a similar Sierra load. Since it could be a marginal powder to start with for this bullet weight I will probably start with a 31 grain load and see what happens. I run a hot load of N133, so I think I will be okay.
     
  11. ReedG

    ReedG Site $$ Contributor

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    I use the burn rate chart from the Hodgdon (http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html) site. Technically, it has one other powder between H4895 and IMR4895 and since they market both I'm willing to accept their info. Everyone has their own methods/ideas about finding a right load. I, personally, will never start with a listed max. load. On the other hand, most of the published load data is pure Pablum and probably not within "X" grains of being a sensible maximum.
     
  12. Otter

    Otter Site $$ Contributor

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    Appreciate the thoughts Reed. Based on the Nosler max load of 32, I consider my 31 grain starting point a medium high load. This rifle has always shot best with max loads of N133 and N135. The best Varget and H322 loads were also at max. (H322 didn't shoot nearly as well though.) The best Varget load was the Hodgdon max, which showed no signs of pressure at all. I might try Varget again and push the max load a little and see what it does.
     
  13. bozo699

    bozo699 Site $$ Contributor

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    Otter,
    That was exactly what I was getting at,...burn rate charts may vary.

    I don't think your on the wrong track, I think H-4895 will work fine for you, I also think the load you are going to try should be okay but,......as a responsible member of this forum and to the rest of the shooting world I feel it necessary to caution people. Otter you are probably a responsible and experienced re-loader and rifleman but it was pointed out to me a year or so ago that there are probably more visitor then members looking on all these forums all the time for info and many if not most of them are not experienced such as yourself so I try not to give loads out at all over the open forum, if necessary I do P.M's I have not tried 70 grain bullets in that exact cartridge with that powder however I have shot a 1:10 twist 6brx with H-4895 and 65 grain v-max bullets quite regular in the high .1's to the mid .2's I set this up for a fire form barrel but it shot so well I use it for a short to mid range varmint rig. RL-15 shoots well but is very dirty, Varget shoots very well but varies lot to lot,...ALOT sometimes. I think you can get the results out of the 4895 your looking for but if not, it will be a good and fun test and you can come back and share with us your findings.
    The loading manuals can't always show every powder that will work for a given cartridge, very few manuals show H-4350 or IMR-4350 being the optimal powder for a 22-250 however I have two 22-250 that will shoot very well with a top charge of either powder and 55 grain BT bullets so although the re-loading manuals are very good and useful, they can't and don't show it all. Best of luck to you.
    Wayne.
     
  14. Otter

    Otter Site $$ Contributor

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    I got some good groups last weekend with two different charges of H4895. Was quite happy with the outcome. It grouped about as good as the best two powders I had used previously, which was N133 and N135.

    I won't post my loads, as I agree with Wayne that lots of inexperienced reloaders might try the loads and I have no idea if they are safe in other rifles. Suffice it to say I didn't see any evidence of pressure signs and the brass easily ejected. If you are more interested in my results send me a PM.
     
  15. Longone1

    Longone1 Site $$ Contributor

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    What kind of velocity did you get with the 4895? How did it compare velocity wise with the VV powders?

    Longone
     
  16. WyleWD

    WyleWD

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    Otter, forgive me if I missed it in this thread somewhere, but what is your barrel length and twist rate?

    The reason that I ask is that maybe the 70gr bullet may be over stabilized due to a 1-7 twist or something making your rifle hard to tune in. Usually a 6br is pretty easy to tune in, especially with the powder advice that you've been given here, and especially with 4895 or R-15. Usually I have more trouble settling on a primer brand than a powder burn rate for a 6br. Just my experience with em. ;) WD
     
  17. Otter

    Otter Site $$ Contributor

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    I didn't chronograph the new loads, so not sure. I'm pretty sure it is good velocity.

    Twist is 13.5 with a 24 inch barrel. It is easy to get it to shoot well with most powders and primers. Shoots most bullets well but never could get decent groups out of Berger 68 grain match bullets.

    I have some H4895 on hand and am wanting to save my currentl lot of N133, so that is why I tried it.
     

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