6.5 Creedmore vs. .260 Remington

Discussion in 'Main Message Board' started by Seeking_Coyotes, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Seeking_Coyotes

    Seeking_Coyotes

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    Can somebody in the know help me understand how these very similar calibers compare to each other. + and -

    I know the parent cases are from .308 and the .30 TC but really have a hard time understanding how I can pick from one of these calibers for long range target and varmint shooting.
     
  2. 22BRGUY

    22BRGUY Site $$ Contributor

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    IMHO...they are both nice cartridges; the CM has a little better and more modern case design with its 30 degree shoulder which is what many top performing benchrest cartridges have. If you go to the 6mmar.com website, they discuss various 6.5/260 cartridges and compare the ideas behind them.
     
  3. people

    people

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    Here are two articles

    http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-creedmoor-260-done-right/

    http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/
     
  4. ShootDots

    ShootDots Site $$ Contributor

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    The 6.5 Creedmore, the .260 Rem and the 6.5 x 47 Lapua are so similar in performance that there is really little to choose from>>>with one HUGE caveat! The 6.5 x 47 and the .260 Rem, if you use Lapua 308 Palma brass for the .260, has the GREAT ADVANTAGE of using small primers. WHY the advantage: Primarily because small primer pockets last a lot longer under the kind of pressure we tend to place our brass. If Hornady would use small primer pockets there would be almost ZERO differences between the three!!
     
  5. Judd

    Judd

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    Agree with what has been said. I had and liked my Creedmoor. It was a great gun and easy to load for. Throw some 4350 in there with a 140 Amax and go shoot. Surprisingly, the factory ammo shot just as good as the reloads.

    To me the only advantage the Creedmoor might have is the factory ammo option. If you plan on reloading then it's a wash as mentioned above.

    I will say I didn't have any problems from the Hornady brass and of I was to do it again it would be a tough choice for me.
     
  6. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

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    In addition to previous comments, here are some pros and cons for two designs that produce very close ballistics.

    260 Rem

    Pro:
    wide range of brass makers - all US, plus Norma and Lapua. Brass can also be easily reformed from .243, 7mm-08, and .308 if required - not so important now that Lapua makes 260 brass.
    a very efficient cartridge capable of extreme precision in suitable rifles.
    Ackley Improved (260AI) version can enhance performance, works very well, feeds well in magazine rifles, and reamers and data are widely available.

    Con:
    2.035-inch length case and 2.800-inch SAAMI COAL sees long 136-142gn bullets seated very deep in the case reducing its capacity / performance and producing theoretically sub-optimal bullet base positions for ultimate precision use. The high BC Berger 140s and the Sierra 142gn model are ~1.4-inches length so an overall cartridge length of 2.8 to 2.9-inches sees 0.625-0.635 inches of bullet seated inside the case.


    6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor

    Pro:
    near identical capacity to .260 Rem, but in a shorter, fatter case with sharper (30-deg) shoulders. At 1.920-inch maximum SAAMI case length, the bullet sits 0.115-inch further out than in .260 Rem in any given COAL. SAAMI COAL at 2.820 is marginally longer too, but that's much less of an issue in handloads and custom rifles. A bit over a tenth of an inch might not sound much but is very useful in a short-action rifle with 130gn and longer bullets.

    Like the 260, a very efficient cartridge capable of excellent precision in the right rifle


    Con:
    Only Hornady brass available, sometimes subject to supply shortages. Could be reformed / fireformed from .22-250 or .308 brass, but a bit of work and produces a short case in some combinations. Early 6.5 Hornady brass had some problems, but these seem to have been resolved.

    Fewer dies etc available than for 260, but a good range nevertheless.

    FWIW, I reckon both cartridges perform best with 120-130gn bullets, but many are very happy with their results with current 139-142gn models.
     
  7. ShootDots

    ShootDots Site $$ Contributor

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    Hello Laurie... I am currently collecting the components for a .260 A.I. build... I am waiting on the stock.. I will be shooting it single-shot mode and it will be throated for 140 class bullets.. I will get the 308 Palma brass and neck it down to .264"... It will sport a 26-27" barrel and my aspirations for it are 142SMK's @ 2900f.p.s. I want to really work and learn this cartridge so that when my 6.5 x 47 Lapua bites the dust>>>2000+ rounds from now, I want to get another .260 A.I. up for my 600 yard F-Open competitions.. I have used a 6.5 x 47 for enough time now that I want to try something different. However, my 6.5 x 47 currently shoots 123SMK's so well that it is difficult to imagine a better 600 yard rifle>>>BUT different does not necessarily translate to "better" >> just different! I am the type of person that "gets bored" with the "same-old-same-old" and like "new"!! LOL!!!
     
  8. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

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    Bernard,

    that sounds like a good project. I'd think 2,900 fps is attainable without too much trouble and the use of small primer brass is an interesting twist to the approach. (I've seen the occasional question on the forum about that but never seen anybody post feedback on their results to date.)

    I've got an old Parker-Hale M87 ex police rifle, originally in .243 Win that I had rebarrelled to .260 Rem. I had it throated long as it's a long (Spanish manufactured La Corunna / Santa Barbara) action and the M87's magazine is dimensioned for 3.00-inch plus COALs as the rifles were originally offered in 243, 308 and 300 Win Mag. It shot very well, but I decided the long action was a bit wasted on .260 and so it's off to my friendly gunsmith to be rechambered to 6.5-284.

    Good luck with the 260AI.
     
  9. ShootDots

    ShootDots Site $$ Contributor

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    Hi Laurie>>>it's Benjamin, not Bernard! LOL!!! At any rate I have some experience with a 6.5 x 284 and I would be glad to share any info / findings I have got with you... Just PM me and I will be glad to share that info! good luck on your build..

    Benjamin>>> AKA "Ben"...LOL!!!!
     
  10. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

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    Oops - late at night over here now, my excuse!
     
  11. Trapper243

    Trapper243

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    I would love to have a 6.5 x 284 . But I can see it getting expensive on anything except a straight Big Game rifle . I went 6.5 Creedmoor on this last rifle because my 243 needs a new barrel, and I was wanting to get more than 3 years on a barrel. I hope my 6.5 CM lasts a while. Actually it is such a useful caliber, my 243 may just end up with a 6.5 barrel also. I am running 142s at a modest 2760. It is serious coyote medicine at distance. Works well up close also.
     
  12. VaniB

    VaniB Site $$ Contributor

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    I had the same decision to make 9 montha ago, and chose the Creedmoor. I'm in the process of having it smithed together as we speak. If you do a search about the 260, it seems there are some folks to be claiming that it can be a very finicky cartridge to handload. I've read of a couple of guys on these forums plum having given up trying to get it to shoot. (YES, here it comes..... now I expect to get plenty of grief from a whole lot of guys who love their 260 and can shoot cluster groups with it) I don't recall ANYBODY ever saying that they couldn't get their Creedmoor to shoot. And many folks claim that factory ammo shoots like a laser. As well, the Creedmoor barrel life is longer. And I also like that the established stats are without the bullet being seated far into the case taking up powder space.

    Initially, I looked hard and long at the 6.5x47 case. I studied the 6.5x47 case and thought it was close to what I wanted but just a little bit shy in the horsepower department. I thought to myself " If I can just find a case that would sought of be a blown-out version of the 6.5x47L......just like how the standard 6BR case compares to the blown out Dasher". I studied and surveyed the Hornady book of cartridges just a little bit longer until VOILA!!!..... There was my blown out 6.5x47 in a VERY efficient case called the 6.5 Creedmoor!!!! And how could I have overlooked it earler? Simply because I didn't like the name "Creedmoor" and so I never paid any attention to it. Do a google search on Creedmoor located in Long Island, NY. LOL
     
  13. cotntop

    cotntop

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    6.5 CM is by far the easiest caliber i have ever loaded for. Not taking anything from the 260 but it is easy to find the sweet spot on the CM.
     
  14. Seeking_Coyotes

    Seeking_Coyotes

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    good to know
     
  15. wyoming .260

    wyoming .260

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    P.M. if you would like my personal imput on .260s. I have never used the 6.5 creedmore to compare but have some experience with .260 for hunting loads. ( note my forum name ;) )
     
  16. brian427cobra

    brian427cobra Site $$ Contributor

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    My 260 barrel went 4068 rounds, right before it starting grouping like a shotgun I was tagging golf balls at 500, a Bartlein 8twist started life with a very short chamber, a 139 Scenar was touching the lands with a Ojive length of 2.150, 41.0 of H4350 in Rem brass sent them out at 2810, after 1500 Scenars I switched to 140Amax .010 off the lands, after 1500 of those, I switched to a jump tolerant 142 SMK, somewhere around 2000 rounds I switched to Win 7-08 brass, or Win 243 brass because in the matches I shoot brass is lost, and 7-08 and 243 Win brass was easier to find and half the cost of Rem 260 brass, and where the Rem brass lasted 5-6 loads and the primer pockets let go, some of my Win brass has 30 loads thru it, at the end it took 45 grains of H4350 to send the 142s @2790

    Now I'm having a 8 twist Rock that I won off the prize table chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor, I'm not happy about the reamer specs, I really wanted a tighter neck because I turn necks and little shorter lead, but this barrel was free, as for brass being a single source is no biggie, all the jacka$$ work has been done converting 243 to Creedmoor, check out TRENT over at http://www.65creedmoor.com/ on how. The 30 degree shoulder is the reason I'm switching, I didn't find my 260 hard to load for, but I want 6.5 short action mag round round with room to grow, and cheap brass.
     
  17. vervi1jw

    vervi1jw

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    A 260AI would be a great choice. I use mine for 600 yard F-open and recently got my 1st win with it. It is very very easy to load/tune and 2900+ fps was easy in mine with a 28 inch barrel although I load around 2800 fps to save on the barrel and has slightly better accuracy but not by much.
     
  18. boltman13

    boltman13

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    When I was trying to decide on a long range rifle build in 6.5mm I realized I could not afford to keep a 6.5-284 in barrels, so it came down to the 6.5CM or the 260 Rem. Honestly I picked the CM because it was newer, somewhat rare, and it's published ballistics seemed too good to be true. Well it was too good to be true. Pushing a 140 gr bullet to 2,900 fps is not a possibility with my 29" Hart barrel even at 4,700 feet above sea level, unless you don't mind blown primers and one load from your brass. When I settled on 2,835 fps with 140 gr A-Max bullets my problems were solved. My rifle loves this load, and my brass can handle it with no problems. I see posts on 6.5 CM's buliten board of people getting 2,900+ with their brass holding up but I can't do it. My barrel has 1,500 + rounds down it and shows no sign of loss of accuracy. I could probably have had as much success with a 260 Rem, but I feel I made the right choice fo my rifle.
     
  19. Seeking_Coyotes

    Seeking_Coyotes

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    Thank you for everyone's input.
     
  20. 22BRGUY

    22BRGUY Site $$ Contributor

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    Very good post and appreciate all of the input. Gotta ask why no one has chimed in regarding the new 6.5 SLR. I have been looking at the lineup of 6.5's for awhile now. At first, I concluded that the 260 30 degree improved was the ticket, but after more thought and research, I now think the 6.5 SLR,with its 30 degree shoulder, very long neck, and about 2 grains more powder capacity than the Creedmoor might be the better choice of the bunch, able to run the 140's easily in the 2900's; It seems like a much more efficient 6.5 284 to me. Maybe I'm missing something here. The drawback is brass formation but I can't see why .243/.308 Lapua brass couldn't be used if desired. This cartridge is seen on 6mmar.com and can't seem to see much interest in it and don't know why not. It seems to me to to resemble an overgrown .222 which I like very much. Any of your thoughts will be much appreciated on this.
    Dennis
     

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