5R rifling, your thoughts
- Thread starter DennisH
- Start date
My opinion is this....I have built rifles on 3,4,5,6 groove on more calibers than I can remember. I don't follow the fad of the month club. I have seen all of the groves perform WELL. If a 3,4,5,6 etc barrel is chambered, threaded, crowned properly, none of us lowly shooters can tell the difference. NOT saying the 5R is bs, just saying the biggest factor, if all work is done right...........is the nut loose behind the trigger. Flame suit on.
[br]DennisH said:
The "5R" designation indicates more than just the number of lands and grooves. It roughly describes a sloped rifling form that Boots Obermeyer developed after examining Soviet AKS-74 rifling. The Russian barrel had four lands and grooves and Boots chose five. The theory of odd-numbered grooves is that no land opposes a land, thus offering better sealing, less barrel friction and less bullet distortion. Various makers have versions of this form that are all characterized by a sloped side to the land. [br]
I've shot 5R Obermeyer and Bartlein barrels and they perform at least as well as conventional rifling like my four-groove Kriegers. YMMV
I've shot two 5R Bartlein's and have seen no great or noticeable difference than any other land/groove combo. I will say that in F-Class some of the best shooting barrels I have witnessed are the 4 groove Brux barrels, but there again it probably has more to do with the "nut" than the barrel. Not to say they don't produce a great barrel because they do.
+1 on what everyone has said. I read on Kreiger's site that although they offer 5R, they have seen no appreciable difference in accuracy related to the rifling. The accuracy of a barrel is dependent on how "true" it is from one end to the other.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/5_R_Rifling-c1246-wp6676.htm
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/5_R_Rifling-c1246-wp6676.htm
Don't know that I would say that there is a difference in accuracy. Have shot 5Rs as well as standard 4 groove bbls. and both will perform to the level of the shooter.
One thing that I will say is, slug a conventional rifled bbl and then slug a 5R and examine the slugs. The 4 groove has a more distinct and abrupt impact on the bullet jacket. The 5R grooves in the bullet have a gentle radius. If you were running high speeds on thin jackets, the 5R would have a more gentle impact on the bullet jacket.
Also, without those sharp corners (like conventional rifling), fouling is removed much easier. This has been observed with a Hawkeye.
Those are just my thoughts having shot both types in several different calibers.
Bob
One thing that I will say is, slug a conventional rifled bbl and then slug a 5R and examine the slugs. The 4 groove has a more distinct and abrupt impact on the bullet jacket. The 5R grooves in the bullet have a gentle radius. If you were running high speeds on thin jackets, the 5R would have a more gentle impact on the bullet jacket.
Also, without those sharp corners (like conventional rifling), fouling is removed much easier. This has been observed with a Hawkeye.
Those are just my thoughts having shot both types in several different calibers.
Bob
All my Bartlein caliber .30 barrels are 5R and my Krieger .caliber .30 barrels are conventional 4-groove. There is no substantive difference in the way they shoot. As JS noted, if they had 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7, I don't think there would be a discernible difference between them, all else equal. There can easily be more difference between two Bartlein 5R barrels than between a Bartlein, Brux or Krieger in the same caliber and twist. There's more in Wisconsin than cheese. 
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
Friend saw my new Krieger 5R in 260AI and had one built. It shoots "bug holes with most everything. Mine is a mess.
Over 300 rds of testing, bedding, mount, loading, case work, consultation and I'm barely under MOA with anything. Looks like my Krieger 5R is a loser. It's the luck of the draw and you can draw a short straw with most anything.
Over 300 rds of testing, bedding, mount, loading, case work, consultation and I'm barely under MOA with anything. Looks like my Krieger 5R is a loser. It's the luck of the draw and you can draw a short straw with most anything.
NOT bashing who built it.....something is amiss. Dropped it and buggered the crown?CaptainMal said:
Bob your spot on with driving the thin jacket burger jlk VLD (Hunting) bullets. When Everyone was scared to shoot them hard in fast twist 30" barrels (Blow-ups). John Whidden was shooting a straight 243 Driving 105s @ 3300-3400 And ran one Broughton 5C barrel into the ground and never missed a lick. I became a believer at that point.
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
No hijack on my part. Just disappointment. Gun has been back to the builder. Crown, bedding, action, mounts, scope and all loading components micro studied. Even changed the original brake for another. Tests this past Monday had some groups OVER 2" @ 100yds. Occasionally get groups just under MOA but even those are not repeatable.
Not done yet. Two more ideas to test and then it's a tie-down stake for the dog. NOT gonna bother Krieger. I have other Krieger barrels that are good. They have no control over the build, tune and loading. Like a defective McGowen I had, figure I'm gonna just "eat it".
Not done yet. Two more ideas to test and then it's a tie-down stake for the dog. NOT gonna bother Krieger. I have other Krieger barrels that are good. They have no control over the build, tune and loading. Like a defective McGowen I had, figure I'm gonna just "eat it".
therifler
Silver $$ Contributor
DH, i believe your last question was how about the 6's . i just put together a new 6 mm x 250 ackley for 600yards.it shoots as well as the four grooves i have built for customers . the difference i sight for odd grooves was stated early, no opposing lands less pressure so states the barrel makers . that being said i have done well with 4, 6 and 5 groove barrels . T.R.
jkohler
Silver $$ Contributor
Captainmal
By any chance have you thought about having a inch cut off the end of the barrel and see if that mite make it shoot. I have see where a barrel will just not shoot and every appears just fine with it cut off that little bit and she wakes right up. The barrel could have some of the belling in it from being lapped. Just a thought
By any chance have you thought about having a inch cut off the end of the barrel and see if that mite make it shoot. I have see where a barrel will just not shoot and every appears just fine with it cut off that little bit and she wakes right up. The barrel could have some of the belling in it from being lapped. Just a thought
Keith Glasscock
Gold $$ Contributor
I have a barrel around here that was made by someone most of you probably haven't heard of. It doesn't shoot, but the builder, who died many years ago, had a reputation for great barrels. I might just have an inch lopped off and try again. Why not, if it'll shoot minus an inch, I've got another barrel.
Bad barrels happen, ragardless of maker. Capt Mal, I'd give Krieger a buzz and see if they'll make it right for you. They do stand behind their work, and don't want a poor shooting barrel out there with their name on it. If nothing else, they'll give you a second set of eyes into the problem for no more than the cost of shipping.
I recently put a 5R 30 cal barrel on my F-TR rifle. It isn't magically any better or faster than the 3 groove Benchmark it replaced. The Benchmark was one of "those" barrels that would shoot 3/8" @ 300 yards. The Krieger is a solid, honest barrel at 250 rounds. I'll see how it ages. If it does as the Benchmark did, it could be a real hammer in about 300 more. Right now, the only reason that any shot fired isn't an X at the ranges I've fired it (300 and 600) is me.
Bad barrels happen, ragardless of maker. Capt Mal, I'd give Krieger a buzz and see if they'll make it right for you. They do stand behind their work, and don't want a poor shooting barrel out there with their name on it. If nothing else, they'll give you a second set of eyes into the problem for no more than the cost of shipping.
I recently put a 5R 30 cal barrel on my F-TR rifle. It isn't magically any better or faster than the 3 groove Benchmark it replaced. The Benchmark was one of "those" barrels that would shoot 3/8" @ 300 yards. The Krieger is a solid, honest barrel at 250 rounds. I'll see how it ages. If it does as the Benchmark did, it could be a real hammer in about 300 more. Right now, the only reason that any shot fired isn't an X at the ranges I've fired it (300 and 600) is me.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.