308 load development for 200 & 215 great Berger s

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by Papa Charlie, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. Papa Charlie

    Papa Charlie Silver $$ Contributor

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    I have been shooting 308 185 gr Berger Juggernauts at 500 yard F-Class matches. But want to develop a load for 1000 yard matches with Berger 200.20X and 215 gr hybrids. I will be using Varget powder.
    Rifle is .308, 30 inch, 5 Grove, 1:10 twist.
    What range of powder loads would you recommend for each and what velocities are you seeing?
     
  2. Stingray

    Stingray

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    43.8 grains of Varget 20 off works for me with the 20x - 2660 FPS/30" barrel.
    43.8 grains of Varget 13 off works for me with 215 Berger Hybrids.
    Strange that the same load works for both bullets.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  3. creedfan

    creedfan

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    my load for the 200 20x = 43.6 varget .020 off 2601 fps 30 inch 5r barrel
     
  4. BP1

    BP1

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    I Shoot the 200 20x 12 thousandth off with 43gr varget out of a 4 groove Kreiger 30” at 2600-2615fps.I have also shot the 20x 12 thousandth off with 45.2gr of n150 at 2675fps that’s also very accurate.Good luck and always work up slowly to any recommended loads.
     
  5. T-shooter

    T-shooter

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    Tread lightly. I had a primer blow out at 43.7g Varget using new prepped Hornady cases and Federal primers. The others fired with this load had slightly expanded case heads as compared to ones with less powder. All my loads are within .02g and the bullets are set to within .001" to the ogive (using a Hornady comparator). These were jumped .005". I don't have any chronograph data from that session but the same at 43.5 produced 2,560 fps from a 22 inch barrel. These seemed to group a bit better at .005" to .000" jump. 43.1g and 43.3g produced the tightest groups. I had to start over as I pitch my old worn out brass and went with new (same part number), later finding out they had about 7% more case volume.
    200-20.jpg
     
  6. swadiver

    swadiver

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    I would suggest using Palma brass. 30" Bartlein 1 in 10 twist barrel, Varget, getting 2700 fps here at sea level with Berger 200 Hybrids. you did not mention your freebore, which will have a big effect on how high a charge you will be able to safely load to. i have a .180" freebore in this barrel. velocity is your friend at 1000 yds
     
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  7. Papa Charlie

    Papa Charlie Silver $$ Contributor

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    My barrel is a Benchmark 30" chambered with a SAAMI National Match reamer. Freebore is ~0.110". I have loaded 200.20X at 0.010" OTL and still had 0.140" space between the charge and the bullet with 42.9gr of Varget. Neck tension is right at about 0.0015" using a .337" bushing. For my brass, I only use Lapua Winchester brass. Primers are CCI BR-2.

    Right now I am pulling 2731 fps with 42.9 gr of Varget using the Juggernauts and they seem to do very well at 0.010" OTLs and 500 yards. I have pushed them up to 44 grs but the rounds started to get squirrelly.

    I am thinking of starting the loads at 42gr and working up to 44gr. If I start to see any signs of pressure issues I will stop. I inspect every case when doing load development very carefully.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  8. swadiver

    swadiver

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    you could also try Winchester brass to gain some extra capacity for a higher charge. the brass is pretty cheap, but won't last for more than a couple of firings at the high charge weights
     
  9. JBT

    JBT Gold $$ Contributor

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    I’m with swadiver...I would invest in Lapua Palma brass.
     
  10. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Silver $$ Contributor

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    Papa Charlie, with 0.110" freebore, your throat/lead is going to be shorter than most people providing load info here. For that reason, the bullets will be sunk down deeper in the neck and you will have slightly less effective case volume. As a result, your pressure will be higher to reach any given velocity, so you're definitely going to want to start at the low end. Even more so with the longer 215 bullet. With the reduction in effective case volume and pressure concerns, you should be using Lapua Palma brass (sm rifle primer). Take my word and the word of everyone else here that's been shooting 200+ gr bullets in .308 Palma cases, standard .308 large rifle primer brass is not where you want to be. Make the switch - I promise you you'll never look back.
     
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  11. Papa Charlie

    Papa Charlie Silver $$ Contributor

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    What are you expecting to be different between a small and large primer case? I don't see how that will make any difference. But very interested in the science behind your comments.
     
  12. milanuk

    milanuk Team Savage Gold $$ Contributor

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    More metal around the primer pocket generally yields longer life before the cases are trashed from running competitive heavy bullet F/TR loads.
     
  13. damoncali

    damoncali Gold $$ Contributor

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    As someone who has smoked Lapua large rifle brass in 2 firings trying to get 215s to shoot, all I have to say is that while there are few no-brainers in shooting, Lapua .308 Palma brass is one of them. It's as simple as having more metal in the case head to resist the pressure. I was able to get 215s to shoot well, but not great. Juggernauts are very forgiving, accuracy wise, but you give up a lot of BC for that. I haven't tried the 200.20xs yet.

    For the 215s 42.5 grains of Varget showed promise, but I have a very long freebore - about .200. That's a pretty hot load in anything shorter.
     
  14. barefooter56

    barefooter56

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    Papa Charlie,
    Please email us at support@capstonepg.com or contact us at 660-460-2802 from 8am to 4:30pm EASTERN time MON thru FRI and we will be glad to get you the data you need!
     
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  15. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Silver $$ Contributor

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    Damon and Monte have it exactly right. A LOT more metal around the primer hole. In my hands, loads in Lapua standard .308 brass predicted by QuickLoad to be in the mid-59K to 61K psi range (i.e. slightly below SAAMI MAX) would kill the primer pockets in 4-5 firings, sometimes less. Not surprisingly, almost every good F-TR load I ever developed tuned in in that exact pressure region. I'm not going to even tell you how high I've run the Palma brass [predicted] pressures with no detectable effect on primers/pockets, but it's enough higher that I generally never have to worry about overpressure when using Palma brass.

    Once I finally switched over, I kept thinking to myself, "Why didn't I do this a long time ago?" Lapua Palma brass typically has 0.3 to 0.5 gr greater case capacity than standard Lapua .308 brass, which helps toward minimizing pressure at a given velocity, and some may also argue that the use of a small rifle primer can improve ES/SD of your loads. There's just really no downside that I have found to using the Palma brass. People can be very stubborn and not want to change, I get that because I'm one of them. However, this is one case where making the switch is something you won't regret.
     
  16. milanuk

    milanuk Team Savage Gold $$ Contributor

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    There is one. Cold temps.

    I've found that attempting to do load development in the winter months (usually a slow time with wonderfully calm/still conditions around here) with Palma brass is pretty much an absolute waste of time. ES/SD is erratic, group sizes are erratic, there's just no upside. Once the temps get below about 40F, either keep the ammo in an insulated bag with a hand-warmer pack or something, or just stay home and wait for warmer weather.
     
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  17. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Silver $$ Contributor

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    I can definitely see how that might be an issue. I generally don't shoot a lot when it gets too far below 40 F, because in Nebraska, that usually means a long way below 40 F and likely with snow added in. Thus, I haven't had any major issues with erratic velocity/groups. I can imagine that also might be worse on the specific powder and brand of primers you're using. Down to the upper 30s/low 40s, Varget and H4895 with Fed 205s seem to behave ok in my hands. I've had more of an issue going the other direction; that is, when developing a load when the temps are in the low 40s and shooting it when the temps are in the 70s/80s. I've found out the hard way I typically need to back off on the charge weight of a cold weather load by about 0.1 to 0.3 gr to maintain a similar velocity once it warms up outside.
     
  18. Jdne5b

    Jdne5b Gold $$ Contributor

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    Sorry to slightly continue the thread drift.. but I wonder if the new small primer brass with larger flash hole offerings would help in this regard? Alpha and Starline are using a larger flash hole in the SRP brass.
     
  19. damoncali

    damoncali Gold $$ Contributor

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    Who knows for sure, but my understanding is that the hole size doesn't really matter- that it's more a matter of how much energy transfer the primer provides in the first place.
     
  20. Papa Charlie

    Papa Charlie Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thank you. I already contacted Berger Tech Support and they emailed me the details on both rounds. There are two reasons why I will only use Berger, quality and customer service.
    Patrick
     
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