300 Norma Improved

Discussion in 'Big Stuff -- 6.5mm, 7mm, 30 Cal' started by rpierce, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. bigngreen

    bigngreen

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    197
    I've seen two RUMs that set back the lugs, one in a Defiance and one in a Rem. they have less bolt thrust and untill recently with ADG the brass quality wasn't up to holding the pressures of the Lapua so you'd run lower pressure than a Lapua would show.
    Kirby Allen has probably done some of the more agressive wildcatting with the Lapua and he does unitial pressure work with Norma brass so the pressures show then once he has his pressures figured out switches to Lapua brass which definitely would keep things under the red line.
     
    rfurman24 likes this.
  2. slugger3

    slugger3

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    56
    Ok, so are ALL actions suseptible to bolt set back, (custom and factory) especially if they are subjected to loads like the 300 RUM shooting 90 to 100 grains of powder?
     
  3. jb1023

    jb1023

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    11
    Fascinating topic, and timely for me as I will soon be shopping for a action for a 300/338 NMI.
     
  4. aahall517

    aahall517

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    How does the norma improved compare overall to the 30 nosler. Ive heard some great things about it as well?
     
  5. L.Sherm

    L.Sherm Silver $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    Messages:
    654
    The 30 Nosler would stack up better if the Nosler primer pockets didnt suck.
     
    Ledd Slinger likes this.
  6. IdahoCTD

    IdahoCTD

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    289
    Depending on the brass used and the exact improvement on the Norma Imp your looking at 108-110grs of water capacity. A 30 Nosler is about 99grs. A 30 Nosler is basically a 300 Weatherby in a shorter fatter package.
     
    Ledd Slinger likes this.
  7. Borisserge

    Borisserge

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    As an alternative possible action as a hunter is a sako trg-s m995. Pretty much a "sporterised" sako try, which run factory 338LM
     
  8. slugger3

    slugger3

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Messages:
    56
    Anyone built a 300 NM on a Savage Lapua action?
    Results?
     
  9. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    3,812
    Savage is not worthy of the 300 NM :p
     
    JBT likes this.
  10. rpierce

    rpierce

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    481
    Thought I would throw some updates on this thread. I started tinkering with VV N570 powder. I did a ladder/pressure test. I got up to 3314 fps with a 215 berger. Honestly the pressure signs weren't really there. The case web expanded just a little bit from 1.5 gr less powder. I just thought I would hit 3300 with a lesser charge and didn't have anymore loaded up with more powder. Im guessing it was gonna start showing solid signs pretty quick though. There was a big node on the target and chrono at 3245 fps. I loaded some up and the 3 shot group had an ES of 3 and measured 1.05" @400. Ive since also tried some different primers as well and CCI 250's offered great ES also at that node. I had a 3 shot group that measured .687"/.164moa at 400 with them and it had an ES of 2. It has since shot a .8" group at 400 with small ES. This 3245 fps node isn't hot. The web doesn't expand at all and the primer pockets are super tight. I think this node will let brass last a very long time. This heavy rifle I have is more or less my testing rifle so I have as much different load info to give customers as possible. I will be getting some IMR 8133 in a few days and plan on testing it out. Preliminary results from people is that it offers great velocities with zero temp sensitivity. So if a guy cant find VV N570 it might be a great alternative. But we will see.
    570 load.jpg
     
    simo hayha, Ledd Slinger and TZaun like this.
  11. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    3,812
    I've been working a little bit with IMR 8133 alongside RL33 with 230gr Sierra MKs and Bergers in my 300 Norma Improved (35 deg shoulder, .235" freebore, and 0.018" body taper from shoulder datum to.200" line).

    The burn rate of 8133 is right around Retumbo (my rifle hates Retumbo btw). Its slightly slower than H1000, but definitely faster than RL 33. I havent had the chance to run 8133 up to max speeds yet, but so far I am getting 3050 fps with the 230gr in a 31" barrel, 1 in 8" twist, and 89gr charge weight. Still have throttle left and its shooting pretty decent. Will need to stretch out the distance and tune it in with 5 shot groups once I find a safe max speed. I will say that 8133 does burn very clean and it is fairly dense so you can fit plenty in the case. Not as dense as RL33, but I'm not sure that any other powder is as dense as 33.

    RL33 has a lot of throttle and case capacity left and is showing more promise on accuracy so far, but it's still a toss up between the two powders because I'm still increasing charge weights.

    Target at 100 yards with 230gr Sierra MK (new .800 G1 BC). Squares on target are 1"x1".

    20190114_223318.jpg


    Target at 100 yards with 230gr Berger.

    20190114_223249.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  12. rpierce

    rpierce

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    481
    Thank you for the info. Im looking forward to hearing updates on it from you. Hopefully Ill be testing it late next week.
     
    Ledd Slinger likes this.
  13. IdahoCTD

    IdahoCTD

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Messages:
    289
    Ledd Slinger,

    Yours is basically the same as mine with 35 degree shoulder and .235" throat. It looks to shoot most everything into small groups like mine too. Mine loves 91 or 92grs (depending on the brass used) of R-33 and 230 Bergers at 3040fps. It shoots in the .1's with boring regularity. Your velocity seems low but I think Sierra's have a shorter bearing surface and they will probably take more powder to get the velocity.
     
  14. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    3,812
    The velocities with the 230 Sierras seem to match the Berger 230s or at least they are very close.
     
  15. rhovee

    rhovee

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    167
    I’m bringing this to the top as I have been trying quite a few different options. .040 off with 215 and IMR 8133 is shooting pretty well around 3100-3125 with cci 250 and Lapua brass. It’s not a dense powder so case fill is great. In an improved chamber I am at 91-91.4 grains for 3120 26” barrel. Tried H1000 and accuracy was good but quite a bit of room in the case still and Es was a little erratic. AB tested IMR 8133 for temp stability and found .1-.2 FPS per degree.
     
  16. rpierce

    rpierce

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    481
    Check out this 300 Norma improved I finished up that's on the shelf ready to ship. It has a Kelbly atlas action, MPA folding hybrid chassis, Brux sendero contour 26” 9.0 tw, self timing 5 port “Muscle” brake, Triggertech diamond. Here’s the first two groups shot w the rifle and my Kahles scope. 100 yds off the bipod fireforming w factory 230 grain ABM ammo.

    Weighs 12.0 lbs without optics. This chassis has the ability to add several pounds of weight to it. This rifle is a little under 4100 shipped.


    Ive found the 230 gr ABM ammo to shoot absolutely lights out while fireforming. I test fired another rifle w it yesterday and the results were mind blowing.

    mpa rifle.jpg mpa folded.jpg mpa targets.jpg mpa brake.jpg
     
    Ledd Slinger likes this.
  17. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    3,812
    Looks like another great shooting rifle :)

    I was not aware that Kelby produced a Lapua bolt face in the Atlas? I was considering that action for my lightweight 300 NMI build but they didn't list the Lapua face on their website so I ended up going a different route.

    Build components for my hunting 300 NMI will include:

    Curtis Custom Helix action.
    Bixn' Andy TacSport PRO trigger.
    Proof Research Carbon Fiber 26", 1 in 9 twist barrel.
    BEAST Ti brake.
    AG Composites 'Chalk Branch' carbon fiber stock.
    DBM and AICS mag.

    Alex Wheeler is putting the barreled action together for me and timing in the Bix trigger. Looking forward to seeing what she will do with the 215gr Berger.

    Also planning on doing some further testing with IMR 8133 and RL33 in my Definace 300 NMI ELR rifle. Hoping to find a node above 3100 fps with the 230 Sierra and 230 Berger
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  18. rpierce

    rpierce

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    481
    Yep. Ive had the Kelblys since late last summer and generally have quite a few sitting on the shelf. For $1100 w a rail and full nitride theyre a smoking deal for a lapua bf action. Let us know how yours comes together.
     
    Ledd Slinger likes this.
  19. Ledd Slinger

    Ledd Slinger Gold $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2014
    Messages:
    3,812
    Just read that ABM ammo has now become "Berger Ammunition".

    Do they use Lapua brass in their ammo? Thanks.
     
  20. rhovee

    rhovee

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    167
    Yes they use Lapua brass in 300 NM ammo
     
    Ledd Slinger likes this.

Share This Page