30-06 and SPEER 168gr GoldDot

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by ROLL TIDE 76, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    Thanks for the add to the group! I'm an humble novice reloader for 6 years now and as Johnny says, "I haven't blown my face off...yet!" With supplies hard to find in my area because of COVID19, I found some Speer GoldDot 168grain .308" at Walmart while getting some groceries. I looked and can't find any load data for that bullet in 30-06 Springfield. I emailed Speer, but no reply yet.

    Trying to get knowledge, I read an article from ShootingTimes by Lane Pearce 2019 in which the author states: So two caveats to remember when loading Gold Dot rifle bullets: Use only Speer’s load data specifically developed for them and pay extra attention to holding onto them while seating them.

    There are tons of loads in the manuals and online(including SPEER) for other 168gr bullets in 30-06, so I know I should be able to load them. I always stick to published loads working up to max checking for over pressure signs. Any ideas??? In my limited wisdom I have not tried to load any of my own homemade loads; so C.O.L. and safe beginning charge is a concern. Powder would be IMR 4350 or Reloader 19. I mainly load for .223 and 300BLK in rifle but only recently started loading for my Winchester Model 70 30-06. If anyone has tried these bullets, I would appreciate your thoughts. Ultimate purpose would be a hunting load for deer. I'm just tinkering while I have time at home. May God bless y'all and our nation! KF : )
     
  2. Bc'z

    Bc'z Gold $$ Contributor

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    Welcome aboard.
    Look at alliant reloading and click on RL19
    you'll probably find what your looking for there.
    I know they use a lot of speed bullets in thier testing.
    If they dont have your "specific" bullet look at data for same grain projectile start a couple grains low and work up.
     
  3. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    Thanks for replying!!!

    And C.O.L.??? Speer has data for their 168gr Match BTHP bullet at 3.295" and Max COL is listed at 3.340". I thought about using their data for the 168BTHP and just working from the starting charge of 57gr of RL19. Both Alliant and Speer List 61gr(Compressed) as a Max charge. Any concerns over seating at that depth and being over pressure at the starting charge of 57gr?
    I know bullets can be vastly different in length. I learned that from 300BLK. Again appreciate the advice.
    KF : )
     
  4. Bc'z

    Bc'z Gold $$ Contributor

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    1st find your jam length with that given bullet.
    I personally use a method outlined in the nosler manual.
    Paint bearing surface of bullet with a sharpie,
    Take a fired un sized case with no primer and flatten 1 side of neck just enough to grip bullet. Feed it into chamber take measurements. I'll do this numerous times looking for a repeatable measurement. Flat spot will remove sharpie, you may need to push bullet up to where sharpie is removed.
    Once measurement is known I'll seat a bullet in a sized case and chamber it if I feel resistance I'll gradually seat bullet lower .002" at a time until I can close bolt with no resistance. This is your overall length for that particular bullet, and you've created a dummy round.
    Now I'm sure someone will come along and say use the Wheeler method.
    If you use search you'll find a video for Wheeler method.
     
  5. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    Thank you for the info and clear directions. I'll look for the Wheeler method too. Learn something new all the time reloading!

    God Bless
    KF
     
  6. mac86951

    mac86951 I prefer my targets level and unmoving Gold $$ Contributor

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    Question: How many bullets did you buy in the box? Do you have a different load that you usually use?

    I'm only curious to see if you really want to go thru the effort to do powder charge testing, and seating depth testing to find a load to finish the box of 100.
    Yes, its good to know where the bullets touch the lands in your rifle; but I'm thinking that tinkering and a good hunting load you'd be better off using Speer's seating depth and going from there.

    If you need more references; Speer's 168 is very similar shape as Sierra and Nosler 168s. You'll find the greater pressure differences in the data due to C.O.L. and barrel length differences in testing.

    Both IMR4350 and RL19 should do well with Speer's 168 in 30-06. Start low and work-up.
    -Mac
     
  7. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    I just started loading my 30-06 and have not begun to load a hunting round yet. I picked up a couple boxes of the 168gr Speers-they come in a new box now that's black and gold instead of the old yellow ones and include 50 instead of a 100. I would definitely prefer to use Speer's data especially for the GoldDot bullet. I wish they had some for the 30-06. I like the gold dots in my 300Blackout and use Speer's data for the 150grGD. Wanted to try them in the 06, so when I saw some of the 168gr I picked them up to try. Didn't know Speer had not published data for any golddots in 30-06.

    I checked out the Sierra data on the 168grMK and they list for RL19 a starting charge at 50gr and work up to 58gr whereas Speer goes from 57 to 61 and Alliant just lists 61gr for the Speer 168 boat tail.

    I think I'm going to start with RL19 at 55gr and go up slowly. Speer and Sierra's 168gr COL are close from 3.285 to 3.295". Thanks for the help!
    KF
     
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  8. RegionRat

    RegionRat

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    Keep in mind, they show that 61 grain load with a "C" for compression.
     
  9. Bc'z

    Bc'z Gold $$ Contributor

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    ^^^^this^^^^ and you'll probably find best accuracy between 57.5- 58.8gr.
     
  10. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    I saw that and I appreciate the heads up on compressed charges. I do load H110 to max in 300Blackout but it groups best right at full case fill. I chase accuracy for fun and have found with the .223 and 300blk that max charge is rarely my most accurate load.

    I was surprised Speer did not have any published data with the bonded golddot at all in 30-06 since it is kinda the do all North American cartridge. But I saw on Speer the 168gr GD was loaded for 308Win so I would think it could be shot out of the 06 too and be very effective on whitetails.

    I think I'll go ahead and load the 55, 56, and 57 gr in RL19 and I'll chronograph it to see where velocity is and how my primer and brass looks then proceed in smaller increments from there if all is fine. Hopefully 55gr wont blow my face off! Thanks guys for the advice. I'll post an update as I progress.
     
  11. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    How long ago did you email Speer? Have you called them? You should.

    Which S.T. issue was Lane's article in? It'd save me time looking for it, I must have it somewhere.
    -
     
  12. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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  13. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    Cant find a phone number on Speer webpage for reloading questions. So I did find them on Facebook and sent them a message asking for safe start charge and C.O.L. for RL19 in 30-06 for the 168gr .308" new Bonded Golddot. We'll see if I get a response as it immediately had an auto-genereated message pop up:

    Thanks for messaging us. We try to be as responsive as possible. We'll get back to you soon.

    Maybe someone from Speer can put me in touch with one of their reloading team!
     
  14. SPQR70AD

    SPQR70AD

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    to get length I just get a factory round same bullet weight unscrew the bullet seater ram the round all the way in screw the seater so it touches the bullet
     
  15. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    Any idea where I might order a box of
    30-06 factory loads with the new Speer 168gr Bonded Golddot?

    I've used that same method before with .223 to get close to desired OAL. I'll take any help here as this bullet in this caliber has no info on it.

    I've been searching google and forums for this combination bullet and caliber without luck and at first had me thinking maybe there is a reason no one is loading this. But it's a 30cal bullet that Speer had loaded in 308, so its gotta be compatible in 30-06. The Sierra 168gr MatchKing is used in both 06 and 308. So I would think this would be a fine bullet for the 30-06. I like what I've seen with folks loading it for other calibers and it mushrooms well, retains weight and gets good penetration in ballistic gelatin with the new bonding process.

    Another option with it being relatively new, I may just have to put it on the shelf and be patient. I love reloading being able to give a bullet the best combo for my barrel. I teach Jr. HIGH, have 3 teenagers and my wife is a cancer survivor with serious chemo-brain short term memory problems. So I find peace at my reloading bench...its quiet and requires great focus and attention to detail.

    Love the hobby and appreciate y'all's kindness helping me. Have a great weekend. Stay weather aware Sunday if you're in the South! Good luck at the range if you get to go!
    KF
     
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  16. Bc'z

    Bc'z Gold $$ Contributor

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    @rolltide
    Find your jam length and make sure it fits your action.
    Load manuals are a guide, when doing load work nothing is set in stone.
    Here's a shot of 2 dummy rounds for my 06'
    185vld on left 185 juggernaut on right.
    Coal is marked on the case. 15865360264307811869889295361785.jpg I'm no German Salazar, but I love the 30-06!
    Brett
     
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  17. 2506

    2506

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    The reason that it is stated to use only Speer's load data for the Gold Dot rifle bullets is because in my experience with using them in 223 Rem. and 6.5 Grendel you will reach too much pressure sooner with them than with other cup and core bullets. I have also noticed the same thing when using Nosler Accubond bullets. It must have something to do with a bonded bullet. I can achieve the same velocity with less powder with these bullets as I can with more powder and other type or make bullets though. But in both of my 6.5 Grendel Ars using the 120 GD with IMR 8208 I found that Speer's data was WAY conservative. My best accuracy within expected velocity of other bullets with NO pressure signs was well over their max listed loads but was still less than for other bullet makes. The Gold Dots are great bullets. They are accurate and the terminal effect on game is AWESOME. I have not checked for 30-06 data on Speer web site but they had data for the 223 & 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel with the Gold Dot.
     
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  18. ROLL TIDE 76

    ROLL TIDE 76

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    Speer just got back with me on Facebook Messenger which was a quick turnaround and they say that they have published NO load data for the 30-06 in any .308cal Golddot only the 308WIN and the 300 WinMag due to this bullet being a "TACTICAL BULLET". I figure if it will kill a person it will kill a whitetail.

    Thanks for details about your experience with the golddots. How did arrive at your COL when working with the new bonded golddots?
     
  19. lb-ft

    lb-ft

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    BC'z is on the money regarding RL19 with that bullet weight range in 30-06. It's magical in mine, and I've tried just about all of them.
     
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  20. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    You might email Allan Jones at Shooting Times who was a ballistician at Speer, but he'll probably defer to what Speer are saying. Every one of the three "letters" I've emailed to the magazine over the past few years have been published in the Readers Speak Out section.

    I would compare Speer's 308 Win data for 168 Gold Dot to their 308 data for conventional 168 bullets, and extrapolate any percentage adjustments for starting and max loads over to the 30-06. I.e. 5% lower etc. I wouldn't think you could go far wrong.
    -
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
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