284 questions

Discussion in 'Big Stuff -- 6.5mm, 7mm, 30 Cal' started by 1shot, Oct 4, 2018.

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  1. 1shot

    1shot Site $$ Sponsor

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    My best friend and shooting partner is thinking very seriously about going to a 284 or the Shehane variant. He posed a series of questions to me that I have given him my .02 worth, but I'm kind of biased as I have been shooting the Shehane cartridge for several years and like it.
    If some of you that are shooting either of these cartridges will give me your input, it would be appreciated.

    1. What neck diameter?
    2. Is it better to turn the necks before or after necking up from 6.5 to 7mm?
    Is an 8 twist to fast?
    3. What is the velocity difference between a straight 284 and a Shehane?
    4. Is there any reason to NOT use a Whidden F/L die with a bushing and a Wilson arbor seating die?


    thanks,

    Lloyd
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  2. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock True believer - Straight 284 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Hi Lloyd,

    Neck diameter - Scott Harris has been experimenting with a no-turn chamber to great effect. I run a .315. I don't think it matters.

    If you turn necks before necking up, you'll be doing them again after in my opinion. Some shoulder gets converted into neck when you neck up.

    Yes.

    I don't know. It doesn't matter, trust me.

    I've never used a Whidden sizing die. The Wilson seater works for me and my team.
     
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  3. jr600yd

    jr600yd Gold $$ Contributor

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    Neck diameter I think you’ll find from .312 to .317 most common. I did find the 284 likes at least .004 neck clearance.

    Like Keith said neck turn after necking up.

    9 twist works fine for 180 Berger’s.

    Don’t know the velocity difference but seem you can get the same velocity with lower pressure.

    Don’t know any reason you can’t.
     
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  4. 284winner

    284winner Gold $$ Contributor

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    You won't see a huge velocity difference but you will see much lower pressures with the shehane. Guys running the straight case are getting about the same velocities as the shehane but pressures are crazy high at the expense of ruining brass to get those numbers. Accuracy nodes will be about the same place and accuracy will be the same in both versions. The 9 twist will be fine with the 180s and IMO you'll save a little barrel life sticking with that over the 8. Dies are a preference deal to me. Redding is all I run while friends run custom dies and I do not see any difference in hunting scenarios. I'm not a competition guy so obviously my dies are fine. Neck size is another "what do you do with the rifle" issue. I'm a hunter so a .316 neck is fine while .311-.315 may be preferred in competitive circles.
     
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  5. Terry

    Terry Gold $$ Contributor

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    Watching.
     
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  6. Ackley Kid

    Ackley Kid

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    .313-.315 seems popular for neck dimensions . I would turn necks after expanding ( Lapua is our only option here in Canada and a good one ) as someone has stated shoulder becomes neck . I shoot both Shehane and Straight 284 not a whole pile of difference in velocity maybe 50-75fps . Bill said he did it for extraction the little bit of extra giddy up is a plus . Buddy of mine had straight 284 with Broughton 5c that shot same high node as my shehane ( 2920 ) with same powder ECT , think it’s very dependent on barrel , reamer dimensions , freebore Yada Yada . A lot of Shehane’s won’t get to 2920-2950 with out killing your brass in short order ! I personally use .313nk so cringe when I have to toss cases , fire form again because I got greedy with the FPS
    1-8.5 or 1-9 twist . Sierras seem to like the little faster twist and 5R , Bergers it’s a wash no difference . I use Whidden dies for both and have no complaints . Had Wilson seater blanks machined from chamber reamer , come in handy if you load way ahead for matches , load long and punch them down to proper OACL night before match
     
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  7. 1shot

    1shot Site $$ Sponsor

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    Here are the specs on my system.
    I run a .313 neck with a .220 FB Shehane, and I own the reamer.
    The barrel is a Bartlein 5R 8.25 twist in a med. Palma @ 32"
    I use a Whidden bushing F/L die w/bushing, and a Wilson seater cut with my reamer.
    I have a 9 twist that shot the 180 Bergers well, but the Sierras poorly at 1,900 ASL, but shot the Sierras well at 5,500 ASL.
    My buddy is taking your information and comparing it against my set up.
    You guys are a wealth of information, please continue.

    Thanks,
    Lloyd
     
  8. Scott Harris

    Scott Harris Gold $$ Contributor

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    We have used both shehanes and straight .284s with both turned and unturned brass. Our preferred setup today is .320 neck, .250 FB, 9 twist shehane at 2825 fps. You can certainly run the shehane up to the low 2900s, but the low 2800 node is reliable and accurate and very easy on brass.

    No turn brass works very well for us.
     
  9. lawrence97

    lawrence97 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I’ve shot the straight 284 and I just stuck with the shehane. I’ve used a .313 and a .315 neck and have not seen any difference. I even tested my brass turned for a .004 clearance in a .313 neck in my .315 chamber and did not see a difference on paper.

    As for neck turning, I’ve always done it after expanding to 7mm. I have only used a 9tw and I’ve used Sierra 180’s and 183’s as well as Berger 180’s without any issues.

    The velocity difference between the two depends on where your gun wants to tune. My 284 liked to run at 2890-2900 and I never had any pressure issues. It could also run around 2845.
    I’ve had a shehane that liked to run 2930-2950 and my more recent ones have been fine at 2890 or down low at 2825. I let my barrels decide what velocity they want to run at accurately.

    Shehane vs Straight? I like the shehane due to the extra boiler room and running lower pressures. The brass lasts a very long time!
    Some are against the shehane because they say they have to fireform..... my answer to that is that you have to do the same with a straight 284. I certainly would not go to a big match with brass that hasn’t been fired at least once or twice.

    The best dies are those that match your chamber. A gunsmith can cut a nice die with a resize reamer that matches your chamber. I would definitely stick to a FL sizing die (Whidden, Redding, etc). I use a Wilson die to seat bullets but I have no problems using a standard die to seat if I’m in a hurry.
     
  10. GSPV

    GSPV A failure to plan is a plan for failure. Gold $$ Contributor

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    I had a Shehane and tried to run over 2900. It was very accurate, but absolutely hell on primer pockets.

    I just got a 7 Walker reamer in for the same reason that folks are recommending the Shehane above. Good velocity at a livable pressure.
     
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  11. Ackley Kid

    Ackley Kid

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    I started with .188 freebore which worked with hybrids but was not optimal for other bullets . Still use same reamer just have it throated to .220+ Accommodates a lot of bullets and helps alleviate some pressure problems as well . If you look at Scott's post they are running .250 free bore , enough said , Harris clan are always in the hunt ..... Got some helpful info from Scott awhile back , he’s a wealth of information. Thank you sir !
     
  12. Tommie

    Tommie Gold $$ Contributor

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    Both versions are fantastic. Differences or advantages between the two are (let's all be honest) fairly minimal. The factory .284 Winchester is already a highly "improved" cartridge.

    The decision ultimately comes down to balancing the cost/benefit issue.
     
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  13. GSPV

    GSPV A failure to plan is a plan for failure. Gold $$ Contributor

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    I ordered my 7 Walker with .250 to give me room for the longer 184 gr.
     
  14. 6and7mm

    6and7mm Silver $$ Contributor

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    Re: 284 Win (not Shehane) neck diameter

    I suggest .318 to avoid the NEED to turn necks. This will still allow you to true the necks if you desire. Most important is to achieve the necessary .004 - .005" clearance around the chamber and loaded case necks.

    The Whidden dies should work slick. I use one in another caliber with good success. I would suggest a body die, then bushing neck die, then seating die. The independent step for neck sizing will allow you to neck size only 70% of the length of the case neck, which has advantages.

    Winning Tip: at a minimum, sort your cases that you will use for the match score/group shots by weight and length per each five-shots (assuming 5 shot relay) AND shoot only new brass for the scoring match rounds (not sighters). ALWAYS FLS your new brass to ensure easy chambering and consistent chambering. After you run your brass through the FLS die, with an expander ball, you simply need to debur it. For your match rounds, ensure that those rounds use the match bullets with the same measurements. You will be glad with your results down range. (In other words, put your most tedious and best efforts, and best components, into your match rounds, and don't sweat so much over the sighter rounds.)

    You can use once to three times fired brass for your sighters. As per MY experience and loads, the brass isn't worth using for either sighters or scoring match rounds after the fourth firing, as shot-to-shot consistency begins to suffer and primer pockets loosen up. Again, that's my experience. This is true regardless if I use Norma 284 Win brass or neck up the Lapua 6.5x284 brass. (Winter or Summer Load = 53.5 gr of H4831SC, with Fed 210 Match primers, with Berger 180 gr. Hybrids, just kissing the lands -- not jammed into the lands.) I hope you find this helpful.

    The 284 Win simply amazes most folks when they get it right.

    Re: twist rate, the twist rate beyond a 1 in 8.5 or 9 isn't necessary; but the 8 twist would likely work; but I wouldn't do it for bullets weighing 180 grains and less.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
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  15. accuracyman

    accuracyman Silver $$ Contributor

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    My 284 reamer has a 317 neck so I do not have to trim necks if I elect or you can skim trim them to clean them up. My freebore is 220 and it works great for the 180 hybrids but it is a little short for the newer heavies beyond 180 grain. I ordered another reamer with a 250 freebore to better accommodate the 19X's and still be able to shoot the 180 hybrids and VLD's. My barrels are 8 or 8.5 twist just to make sure. I know a lot of people run 9 twist barrels but I have elected a little faster twist. Good luck and you will love the 284!
     
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  16. 6and7mm

    6and7mm Silver $$ Contributor

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    Bump to top in support of the recent 284 Win related threads.
     
  17. Bginvestor

    Bginvestor Silver $$ Contributor

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    Lloyd, I use a Whidden full length Size die with good results on my 284 Win. No, I don't use a bushing, custom fit to my brass. Highly recommended, and not expensive. I do use a Wilson for seating bullets on an arbor so I can check neck tension lbs.
     
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  18. Peebles24

    Peebles24 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Not exactly on topic but lots of 284 expertise here so i will ask. I am looking at building a 284 next year to use in 2020 i hope. Have 2 14 year old boys at home so well you know.

    I am leaning towards shehane 284 for brass life and may make a difference with regards to the question.

    What barrel life can one expect in fclass use. I currently am running a 6.5 cm and dont push my 28" barrel hard. With 140s my avg fps is 2834, load testing showed i could reach 2960 with out pressure signs but liked the slower load. I hope to get 1700+ out of my cm. Will a 284 shehane be similar or better? Kind of a second question. I enjoy the near zero recoil of my 17# 6.5 how much more recoil would a heavier 284 have?

    Thank you
    Chad
     
  19. 1shot

    1shot Site $$ Sponsor

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    @Peebles24 ,
    I can’t answer the bbl. life question yet, I’m at the mid 500’s now. I was also a little concerned about going from 6.5 to 7mm in regards to recoil. I was pleasantly surprised to find that in the same stock/receiver/scope combination the recoil impulse was more of a long push as opposed to a shorter punch. I’m comparing the Shehane w/183 SMK at 2,840 to a 6.5 GWI with 140 JLK bullets going 3,055 FPS.
    I hope this helps,

    Lloyd
     
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  20. vahena

    vahena Bob Schultz Gold $$ Contributor

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    I am no expert but I have two 284 Shehane's both Speedy built, same reamer, barrel speedy contours, triggers and Cerus stocks with Rad 2a recoil pad.My freebore is .200, chamber neck 315, and I shoot H-4350 with 180 Berger Hybrids with tuners.
    I use Eric Cortina's method of an OCW test for powder, find a node and reload with 5 shot groups and let the paper tell me what the barrels like. One barrel like's 52.4 and the other like 53.0 of the H-4350.
    Installed a new barrel on one I wanted to start the season with a new barrel and it liked H-4350 with 52.6 , chambered same reamer, polished and threaded for tuners by keth Weil, Cirgar cop, four new barrels by the way. My backup 284 S has 1600 rounds down her and she is still shooting great, I see no change so far. I expect around 1800 rounds per barrel. My loads are not hot and I am getting on one rifle 2910 FPS and the new one is 2930 both ES 's are below 5, not that I care because the paper tell's me what they like..
     
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