Discussion in 'Rimfire & Smallbore' started by garandman, Oct 22, 2019.
How do you define "benchrest build?"
Going for max accuracy at 50 yds. Will be using a chassis, not an f-class type stock in a full rest. More a Seb Joy-pod w/ rear bag.
I don't mean this as a smart-aleck answer. In my opinion, "max accuracy" and "benchrest build" don't really go with an action that costs $500-800. If you're saying you want the best action you can find within that price range, I'm afraid I don't have an answer. However, you said elsewhere that you have a rifle that is "good for a repeatable 0.25" @ 50 yd." That's very impressive accuracy on a repeatable basis. Why not just use that one?
@brshtr ... no worries. Any suggestions appreciated.
"That one" is a Vudoo $1,400 action. Others have also said its not a true " bench rest" action.
Im getting highly conflicting viewpoints from some who I personally *know* to have strong rimfire creds vs. others who tell me they have strong rimfire creds.
Its VERY confusing.
It is probably usable as a BR action but why ?
First off, mechanically speaking it is essentially a shortened 40X. That said very few new competitive BR rifles are now built on 40X’s for several, well reviewed reasons.
Second, since it is a repeater, again if you’re going for BR accuracy, why would you want to eliminate so much bedding with that big hole in the bottom ?
Third for that kind of $ it is more expensive than the BEST BR actions made.
Buy a 2500X and be done with it.
@Tim s ... thanx.
If I state something as a fact, it will be something that I know for a fact is true, based upon my own personal experience and observations. If I state an opinion, it will likewise be based upon my own personal experience and observations. I may occasionally relate something I've heard from others, but in that case I identify it as such.
When people say a Vudoo is not a true benchrest action, what do they mean by that? That it's not typically used in serious RF BR competition? That may be true, but there are other things to consider.
First, it sounds like your rifle shoots very well. Even if people don't think it's a true BR action, what difference does it make? Does it need to be a "benchrest" action? It would be helpful to know your intended purpose for the new rifle, as different uses or types of competition lend themselves to different types of rifles.
Second, the Vudoo you have now may be quite suitable for the purpose you intend, even if it's not what others consider a "benchrest" action. The 2019 Georgia State F-Class champion shot an extremely good score with a Vudoo action in a Manners stock and some brand (not Vudoo) of barrel. In the process, he beat some people shooting actual benchrest rifles. Does that mean the Vudoo is better than those actions? Of course not. There are many things that factored into his win, not the least of which were that he had excellent, consistent technique, did a great job of reading the wind, and had a winning shot strategy. The action is only one part of it, but using a Vudoo sure didn't keep him from shooting a great score.
I think you will have a hard time finding what people typically regard as benchrest actions in the price range you want, unless you buy it used and get a good deal. And even if you find one, how do you know it will enable more accurate shooting than you do now? You'll still need an excellent barrel and a stock suitable for the intended purpose.
Tell us what you plan to use the new rifle for. Then we can give you better advice.
As you can see above (Tim s) opinions vary w-i-d-e-l-y.
Not sure how to better answer the "use" question. For benchrest competition. For accuracy. Some tell me single shot is the way to go. Others tell me different.
Everybody has strong opinions. And many conflict.
Not sure what Im doing to make it confusing. I dont want it to be. In fact, Id love to find some clarity in this decision ....
In your price range...looks like you are stuck with a 10/22 clone .
@Tim s ... im trying to educate myself .... here.
But I do plan to attend some matches that have the specific types of guns Im looking for... true fully custom rimfires, i.e. NOT Vudoos.
For what it is this forum is OK.
There are probably not more than a few guys actively shooting full on BR guns here, however.
You want to learn about max accuracy custom guns, it’s going to likely be on RA, where you have global BR participation.
Let me get more specific.
NRA F-Class Smallbore has two types of rifles: FTR and F-Open. Without going into a lot of detail (the NRA rules are online), the difference is that FTR is shot on a bipod and F-Open is shot on a front rest. Both can use a rear bag. One-piece rests are not allowed. Single-feed only. Can use a repeater action, but must still single-feed. The bolt does not have to be removed from the rifle, but an ECI is required. There's a weight limit. The weight of the bipod is included in the total weight. The weight of the front rest is not.
As a practical matter, in all the prone matches I've shot in and/or run, FTR and F-Open rifles were placed in the same class for awards purposes, though that's not mandatory.
Some people shoot honest-to-goodness RFBR rifles in F-Open, though not all do. If one really wants to maximize one's equipment for both sports, they'll shoot different configurations of actions. A right-handed RFBR shooter will probably (though not necessarily) prefer right-bolt, left port. A right-handed F-Class shooter will probably prefer right bolt, right port, because the position is different and the left arm is better used to support one's weight.
There have been a couple of references to "F-Class stocks." I have shot in and run quite a few smallbore prone matches that included F-Class, and I've observed various types of stocks being used. Some use benchrest stocks with 3"-wide forearms. Some use prone stocks, or sporter-type stocks, or "tactical"-type stocks. Those who shoot on a front rest typically have either a BR stock or a stock with a 3"-wide glide plate on a rail on the bottom of the forearm.
Im wanting a more tactical style stock, not the 3" wide forearm, Im sure of that much. I want a more connected, visceral interaction with the gun. 2 bad knees and 1 bad back kinda elimate prone shooting, so its gonna be a bench gun. Right bolt, right port. I prefer bipods, but front rests are ok.
What I dont understand yet is how those particulars drive / inform the choice of an action
@MrG52D ... good idea.
I got a barreled Anschutz 54 for sale. With the 1407-U9 Hair Trigger.
Those particulars don't influence action choice very much. If you have unlimited $$ to spend, get the 2500X as Tim suggested. It'll certainly work (I assume they can be had in RBRP?). Just make sure it will fit in the stock you want to use and can be bedded properly in it. I suspect you'll be the only person on the line with a 2500X in a tactical stock.
But $500-800? That's your more limiting factor. You have to pay to play.
Now, let's say you get a 2500X or, more in your price range, a used action. You have the barrel, from a prominent maker. You buy a good stock. You pay a gunsmith who knows what he's doing to bed the stock and do the barrel work.
Are you sure it will shoot better than .25" repeatedly, as you said your present rifle can? It's your money and your choice, but please don't tell yourself that buying a single-shot action necessarily means it will shoot better than what you have now. .25" repeatedly is pretty danged good for a .22 RF. You probably won't win a high-level RFBR match with it, but it's still pretty danged good. I wish my Anschutz 1913 with a Benchmark barrel and a tuner, bedded and chambered by a very good gunsmith, could shoot .25" repeatedly. There are too many other factors in the accuracy equation to be able to guarantee that your new single-shot rifle will do better than than what you have now.
I agree with the advice to call Killough. I would also look at the used 54 referenced above, or another used action, if you don't want to pay the freight for a new single-shot action. Again, $500-800 is a tough hurdle for what you want.
Garandman, a lot of what I mentioned is being repeated here, only you can decide at what level you want to spend to get the level of accuracy you want and are after.
the easiest route for the max accuracy you are wanting is a full blown BR rifle. sure F-class/taticals can shoot good, but not at the level a BR rifle will and as consistent, whole different target and scenario in BR
it is not just the rifle it is the whole setup to get the max accuracy.
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