.223 with 9 twist and 50 to 55 grain bullets

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by centershot, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. centershot

    centershot Silver $$ Contributor

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    Would you expect a .223 to shoot 50 to 55 grain bullets well with a 9 twist? I know that heavy bullets with a slow twist will tumble. What about light bullets with a fast twist? What about factory 35 grain loads in a 9 twist? Would you expect them to work?
     
  2. bloc

    bloc

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    My .223 Rem Stevens 200 has a 1:9 twist, and I shoot 40 gr VMax bullets a lot.

    With 3 shot groups, I consistently get <1.0 in. @ 100 yards, often much, much better (24 Gr LT-32 or 22.5 Gr IMR 4198). With 5 shot groups, still less than 1 inch (sometimes much better). It's about as accurate with 50, 53 and 55 grain bullets.

    With 75 grain bullets, the groups open up to, oh perhaps 5 inches . . .
     
  3. Toolbreaker

    Toolbreaker Gold $$ Contributor

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    I can't comment on any 35 gn. loads, but I normally shoot the 50-55 gn bullets out of my .223 9-twist. Specifically, 52 gn SMK's and 53 gn V-max's. Both are very accurate for me, with the v-max's edging out the SMK's slightly. My recorded velocities and charges follow very close to Hodgdon's data, as well. With the lower velocity (case capacity) of the .223, you shouldn't have any problems with this twist rate.
     
  4. fourbore

    fourbore

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    I have a cz with 1/12 twist and get 1 moa from factory 50 gr load. No big deal, these days. I am considering buying another, heavier 223 and seems the voices of the web all yelling for more twist got the industry moving to faster 223 twists. That is a major improvement I am sure for guys shooting 500 yard steel plates or heavier match ammo on paper. BUT FAST TWIST DOES NOTHING GOOD FOR VARMINT HUNTERS. The best we can hope for is minimized damage. I am looking to better my cz, not just retain the current levels.

    What little I learn after all these years is everything (meaning everything) will effect the sweet spot for optimum accuracy. So absolutely 1/9 will give the so called "adequate accuracy" with lighter bullets. But it wont be the sweet spot. I think today, Sako go the right idea with 12 , 10 and 8 twists offered in 223. If you really want 9 twist, then 8 should do you better.

    The real answer for most small game/varmint shooters is the 204. There you get a gun and ammo specifically optimized for varmint and not zombie shooting after the apocalypse. I want to stick with 223 and this twist situation is darn annoying.
     
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  5. DiRTY DOG

    DiRTY DOG

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    Fast twist (such as 1:9 discussed by OP) is great for varmints. 1:8 is great also. I have 223s in each twist that both shoot 40-50gr bullets five shot groups around 1/2" at 100 yards. Plenty good for varmints.

    1:9 may not be "optimized" for record setting BR matches, but it'll shoot varmint bullets just fine.

    What do you mean by "does nothing good for varmint hunters"?
     
  6. fourbore

    fourbore

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    I mean assuming this is correct
    What I mean is I dont want just fine, I want the best twist the industry can provide for 40-50 grain bullets. I dont profess to be an expert and I am sure I ask more than I return on most of these forums. My humble opinion, no sarcasm intended, and it may not be the best: the 1:9 is a compromise. I would rather have 2 guns each with the optimum twist than a compromise. Savage is an excellent example where they offer a no compromised (expensive) top varmint gun with 1/12 and also a long range 223 with a 1/8. Sako does the same with 12,10 and 8 choices. That must be for a reason.

    I guess my rant was a hi-jack since the op was only asking if 1/9 would work. Yea, sure, I know the internet concensus is yes. I belive that concensus. I only chime in: that is would not be the BEST choice with light bullets. Getting to 55, hey, 9 or 10 might be a superb place to be at. I dont know.
     
  7. centershot

    centershot Silver $$ Contributor

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    BTW, my .222s are all 14 twist. That, in my opinion, is the best for 50 to 53 grain bullets. I must reiterate, a nine twist should not make 50 grain bullets tumble. That was the premise of the post.
     
  8. Mozella

    Mozella

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    To answer your question, Yes, I would indeed think a 1:9 twist .223 would shoot 55gr bullets well. However, it depends on what "well" means.

    I have a Howa 1500 1:9 twist. It seems to like 69gr moly coated Sierra Match Kings. It will nearly always shoot less than 1/2 MOA at 100 yards, often in the "threes" and from time to time in the "twos".

    I had hopes that it would shoot lighter bullets too, but lighter bullets don't do as well. For example, 52gr Sierra Match Kings usually shoot sub 1 MOA but never get below 1/2 MOA. The 55gr Blitz Kings are a bit better, always shooting below 1 MOA but I can't count them getting below 1/2 on a given day even though they do so on occasion.

    To put it in perspective, I'm willing to lay five bucks on the bench and you are free it pick it up if I can't shoot 1/2 MOA with the 69gr SMKs. I am NOT willing to do that for the 55gr Blitz Kings. I find that something of a disappointment because I had hopes that my gun would shoot sub 1/2 MOA with 55gr bullets. It won't do so on a regular basis even though my best five shot 55gr group is a .272 MOA.

    On the other hand, if 1 MOA is all you're looking for, then I would expect a good 1:9 barrel should do the job.
     
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  9. liseo

    liseo

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    My custom 223 1/9 tw HV Krieger shoot the 52 Barts and 73 grains Berger the same. Always less than .5" at 100 yrds.

    Sometimes a 1/4" 5 shoots groups. I love this caliber, even more than my 6 BR.
     
  10. LHSmith

    LHSmith

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    ^^^^^ Very impressive results from a custom rifle by a renowned smith who knows when to shoot and how to hold off for conditions. Just remember, YMMV.......greatly.
     
  11. simon6ppc

    simon6ppc

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    i hear they shoot them well,but also they can rip apart when leaving the barrel with the twist being so fast..
     
  12. Larryh128

    Larryh128

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    You won't have any issue with the 50-55 gr bullets in a 9 twist. They will be accurate no doubt. I shoot either 8 or 9 twist with 55 gr BT's & they shoot very well.
     
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  13. 5spd

    5spd

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    I have yet to see any issues with 35g to 69g bullets in any of my 1/9tw .223s in the last 45 yrs.
    They all shoot/print perfectly.
     
  14. centershot

    centershot Silver $$ Contributor

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    This is a new rifle. I sent it back to the manufacturer. Will see what transpires.
     
  15. fourbore

    fourbore

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    Very informtive answer. Thank you.
     
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  16. MBuechle

    MBuechle

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    My son's AR-15 is a 9 twist and so is the .22-250 upper for my AR-10. Shoot 53 gr V-maxes out of both, both worked very well on last PD hunt. The .22-250 will drive these to 3900 fps, they stay together and group to 5/8. Really have not had time to work with this rifle much, got barrel from Gary Schnieder about 4 weeks prior to hunt. Had to machine tenon, chamber, assemble upper, size gas port and develope a load in that time. Overtime at job didn't help. Very happy with performance at the dog town though.
     
  17. centershot

    centershot Silver $$ Contributor

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    Got my rifle back from Savage today. They only shot Federal 77 grain loads in it and said it shot .8". Why should I be forced to shoot 77 grain bullets it?
     
  18. cocopuff

    cocopuff Silver $$ Contributor

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    I have never been able to get the 55 to 55 gr to work in my 9 twist mcgowin barrel 223.

    but then again i never shoot at 100 yards..Tried them at 300 and it looks like a shotgun
    group. My sons ar with 9 shoots them well at 100 but thats it.Anything farther and their
    all over the place.Really the weight of the bullet doesnt matter. it's the length that is
    important as far as twist goes. Like for example the Barns 62 grain shoot very well in
    my 9 twist..But they are longer than the 69 gr smk's...Now if someone told mr they were
    getting 1 inch groups at 300 with a 9 twist and a 52 gr bullets I would really be impressed
    and have to see this befor beleiving it,lol.....
     
  19. varmintshooter

    varmintshooter

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    My 9 twist savage 10fl shoots all bullets 50-75 gr very well. My savage model 16 9 twist will also shoot bullets 50-75gr however the point of impact really changes with bullet weight with the 50gr hitting high left and the heavy bullets hitting low right. My model 10 will put all 50- 75's in the same general area. If for example I shot 3 each 50, 55, 60, 75 gr bullets (model 16) aiming at the same point I would end up with 4 groups. The wife's model 12 9 twist shows a preference for 69 gr bullets although it will shoot 55 gr bullets the groups will open up some.
     
  20. centershot

    centershot Silver $$ Contributor

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    I went to Sportsmans' Warehouse and bought the American Eagle 50 grain 223GTV, Fusion 62 grain and a box of Hornady 60 grain to reload. Will go to the range on Tuesday and report.
     

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