223 or 22Br out to 600

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by 30EX, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. 30EX

    30EX Gold $$ Contributor

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    .223 or .22 BR out to 600 yrs

    What twist, what bullet?


    The X-Man
     
  2. stacy

    stacy 2 TIMOTHY 2 VERSE 15 Silver $$ Contributor

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    22BR FOR ME 8 TWIST 75GR OR 80GR VLD BERGERS I HAVE A 22 DASHER THAT DOES VERY WELL AND ALSO A 223 ACKLEY THAT DOES WELL NEVER SHOT MY 223 AT 600 BEFORE
     
  3. Evan

    Evan Gold $$ Contributor

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    Second that: 22BR, 8twist, 75-80gn bullets, 0.100 freebore, 253 neck for no turn.
     
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  4. xswanted

    xswanted Gold $$ Contributor

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    22BR will run an 80 around 3100-3150 normally. 223 probably can run up to 2900 with the right combo of stuff.

    To me the recoil is about identical.

    Get both!
     
  5. BW

    BW Silver $$ Contributor

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    Can't speak on the 22br but I shot a 223AI at my clubs weekly 600 yard f class matches for a couple years. I was running 80gr's in a 7.7 twist at about 2915fps. The gun shot extremely well and was competitive on the calm days. It will definitely teach you a few things about wind!
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  6. XTR

    XTR

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    From a single shot to 23 let’s throw it long enough you can run the year he said about 2900 as noted above it works fine out to 600. It really depends on how you want to compete and with whom you would like to compete
     
  7. AJC

    AJC

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    223 7 twist with 80 grain eldm or SMK works for Silhouette just fine.
     
  8. rsmithsr50

    rsmithsr50

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    if you are going to shoot 600 , why a 22 cal ?
     
  9. 30EX

    30EX Gold $$ Contributor

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    I have rigs in 6mm, 6.5 and 308, don't do 7's, I have a 222 that shots a small hole all day long, liked the 224, but never was a fan of the .223, but it's cheap to shoot, evergthing I own will go 600+, so if I was going to build a 224 it has to get there.
     
  10. Cuando

    Cuando

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    For 600 yards and in, it sure would be tough to beat a .223AI and 75's with Leverevolution at 3,100 fps or so in formed brass.

    .22br with 88's at 2,900 are fun too, but with Alpha brass available, I'd go .22 Creedmoor as it's a bunch more fun and less bull shit at the bench.

    Good luck!
     
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  11. rsmithsr50

    rsmithsr50

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    I am a big fan off 223, but if you want better than moa( a big wish) then I would pass on 223 and look at the 22br.
    necked down tens to make things bbl burners, and would pass on the 22 creedless
     
  12. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    That must have been some right fine whiskey.
    -
     
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  13. Ranger188

    Ranger188 Silver $$ Contributor

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    If you don't shoot it much, go with a 22 Creed. You already have the brass to neck down
    or buy some Alpha, ready to go. Buy a 7.5 twist and run the new 85.5 Bergers @3100 fps
    should last awhile and do what you want. You won't have to put as much $ into it as a 22br
    and the 22 Creed will out perform it.
    You could run a 8 twist and use lighter bullets for under 600yds.
    If you run the heavier 90-95g you'll want a 7 twist to stabilize them.
    Now you have to watch your speed and bullet RPM's or you might run into bullet blowups.
    Kind of a fine line with the fast 22's
     
  14. Oso

    Oso

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    Everyone should have at least one 223 or 223AI. It is inexpensive, accurate, and easy to load and shoot.

    Don't do 22 Creedmoor... its a barrel burner just like a 22-250. If you are wanting more horsepower and depending upon what platform you are planning to use, I might be tempted to hold and see what shakes out of the 6GT being necked down to a 22GT... more powder, potentially easy to load, and will feed out of standard short action magazine.
     
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  15. Ned Ludd

    Ned Ludd Gold $$ Contributor

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    IMO - it all depends on what you want to do with it. I have a couple .223 Rem F-TR rifles set up to shoot Berger 90 VLDs. Below are two 20-shot targets fired from one of them at 620 yd. The inscribed rings in the target face are 3" and 6", respectively, to reflect the 600 yd F-Class target 10-, and X- scoring rings. A .223 Rem set up to properly shoot the 90s can be a real pleasure to shoot and it will reach out to 600 yd, or even 1000 yd, just fine. However, that is a purpose-built F-TR rig with a 30" 7-twist barrel and 0.169" freebore. It weighs in at ~17.5 lb with an NF 12-42 scope and a big LRA bipod. It's not a setup that I would recommend for hunting or occasional recreational shooting.

    C-IV, 620 Yd.jpg

    The advantages of something like a 22BR are a bit more case volume so you can get higher velocity out of the heavier, higher BC .224 bullets in the 80 to 90 gr weight range. As such, it will deliver a bit flatter trajectory and greater wind resistance than a .223 Rem with a given weight bullet. However, that comes at the cost of shorter barrel life and a slightly more effort necking down 6BR brass to .22 cal. There are other "hot-rodded" .22 cal cartridges such as the 22 Creedmoor, for which commercial brass is currently available.

    Another issue that may be problematic with some of these higher-power .22 cartridges is that arguably one of the best .224" bullets currently available is Berger's 90 VLD. However, jacket failure is a real consideration when trying to push them in the ~2900-3000 fps range out of a 7.0-twist (or faster) barrel. There are ways to alleviate this issue, such as using a 7.2-twist barrel, rather than 7.0-twist, or going with a 0.219" bore instead of 0.218". Nonetheless, the potential of not being able to take full advantage of the 90 VLD with the extra horsepower these cartridges offer should be considered.

    Other alternatives to the jacket issues of the 90 VLD would be to use a different bullet that might not have quite the performance of the 90 VLD. For example, Sierra makes a very, very good 95 gr .224" Matchking bullet. It's a little too heavy for the small .223 Rem cartridge in order to make the best use of its high BC, but it ought to work very well out of a 22BR cartridge (or similar). Berger's 80.5 Fullbore bullet would be another good choice. It doesn't have quite the BC of the 90 VLD, but the extra velocity obtainable with the lighter bullet will partially compensate for that. The 80 gr .224" bullets don't seem to be quite as problematic with regard to jacket failure as the 90 VLD. Sierra also makes a very good 90 gr Matchking bullet that seems to tolerate conditions that might cause jacket failure in the 90 VLD. In other words, there are several good 80 to 95 gr bullet options to choose from with a cartridge like the 22BR.

    In the end, the intended use would be a consideration in the choice of caliber. For example, I have another .223 Rem F-TR "practice" rifle with a 26" barrel out of which I shoot the 80.5 Fullbore bullet. Although still a bit on the heavy side, it would be more in line with a general-purpose rifle. I have no difficulty hitting targets at 600 yd with that rifle/load either, although running the 80.5s out of it at a slightly lower velocity means they are influenced far more by wind conditions that the 90 VLDs.

    The bottom line is that you could really go either route. A .223 Rem set up with a fairly long barrel (26"+) that is chambered to shoot bullets in the 80 to 90 gr range will certainly do the job, with a little less effort in terms of reloading and better barrel life. A 22BR will give you a little more boiler room to push the heavies with better performance, but will have somewhat shorter barrel life and may require a little more up-front effort in terms of reloading.
     
  16. Cuando

    Cuando

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    Really some great shooting Ned!!!!
     
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  17. Evan

    Evan Gold $$ Contributor

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    The only thing the 22 Creedmoor does better is go faster with cheaper brass. The 22BR is more accurate and more consistent in every way.

    Don't go for the 90s and a 7 twist. I rolled the dice on that and my barrel blows up anything and everything in the class if I try to shoot more than 1 shot a minute. I can't compete with it, and I can't shoot 5 shot groups. It's simply not worth it. Stick with an 8 twist and the 80s, which do not blow up. Some folks get lucky and their 7 twist does fine, but will you be happy if you get unlucky and your barrel blows bullets up?

    For anyone interested, here's my 22BR log with results and load info: http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/my-new-22br.3981971/
     
  18. XTR

    XTR

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    heheheh, yea, that's what happens you talk to an iPad and don't proof it because it looked right.... (not saying I've never had enough bourbon or tequila to actually type that way, I try not to tell lies)

    translation: if you are doing a single shot throat a 223 the right way for single feed and it will run 90s at 2800ish, 80s at 2900, 75s faster, and it will shoot under ½ MOA. There are a number of F-TR shooters who have proven that. I seem to recall someone in TX shot like a 200-19X at 600 with a 223 in the last couple of yrs. (I've won a few trophies/plaques with a 223 in midrange F-TR)

    Along with all the other good things noted above.

    If you go 22BR you can run faster, I think from what I've been told and read it tunes in about 150 to 200FPS faster than a 223.
     
  19. brians356

    brians356 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Do you talk to fire hydrants as well? Many stumblers around here do now, waving their arms animatedly.

    Seriously, I thought maybe you were channeling Prof. Irwin Corey.
    -
     
  20. searcher

    searcher Gold $$ Contributor

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    Because you have the 600+ "covered" with your other rigs - I'd opt for the .223 in a 26" heavy-barreled, 1-8" twist and make up two loads - one with high-B/C 55 Blitz Kings, ELD's or 73 Bergers, etc. - and one for real close (under 350 yards - using 40 or 50 grain bargain bullets that will hit anything in that range. I like the 53 V-Max as a good all-around cheaper bullet with good B/C. For long shots and/or dealing with stiff wind - go up to your bigger rigs. The 1-8 tw. doesn't under or over twist for these bullet ranges and will also shoot lead free just as well.
     

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