222 Low-Drag

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by deadduck357, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Evan

    Evan

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    I'm a bit clueless as to why you aren't sharing more about it. You've got a gun, results, pictures, a reamer print presumably with a date on it and your name. You have everything needed to prove when you did it. The only thing that can happen now is other people copy it, and since you have no commercial plans for it, there doesn't seem to be a real downside to that.


    Like I said earlier, if you want folks using your exact reamer, you need a catchy name :D, and then you need a store to provide the reamer and dies at a bare minimum. The more information you create on how exactly it's made, the more tractible it will be for people. It will move from the fringe wildcats into the more accessible ones. Like the Dasher. Not an easy wildcat in pure terms; you're blowing the shoulder forward so far, but there is so much information about it that relatively inexperienced wildcatters feel comfortable giving it a try. If your 222LD is obscure and poorly documented, it'll be just another reamer print in the vaults.

    There's A LOT of interest here. Trust me. You're getting all this heat because people are very interested and frusterated with the secrecy. We just want information, the more you share, the more inarguably it becomes yours. You're documenting its originality now. The more completely you do that, the less someone can viably claim they did it before you. Or if they did and documented it, then it still is a great idea resurfacing again and you are strengthening the viability of the design.
     
  2. 1911nut

    1911nut

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    I’ll be watching to see how the OP develops this cartridge and look forward to the specific case dimensions, load data, velocity and targets.
     
    deadduck357 likes this.
  3. Lucky Shooter

    Lucky Shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    deadduck357

    Its good to see somebody thinking outside the box-----however this shouldn't scrap the wisdom
    that's been gained earlier and shouldn't casually ignore safe limits that have been defined
    by the work of others.

    You might fare better if you'd make more info available to the experienced folks on this and other
    forums-----I don't think anybody would try to horn in on your project.

    For starters----how about posting a reamer print ?

    No sweat if you want to wing this on your own but its counterproductive to reveal tidbits of information
    and then argue with the answers you get. Don't ask the question if you can't stand the answer.

    Wishing you success.

    A. Weldy
     
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  4. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    I do appreciate the cautions from everyone, that's why I'm starting to incorporate another check (.200 datam) into the testing that was recommended by Evan.
     
  5. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    In due time, I can't right now. Y'all already know what it is, I read about it here.
     
  6. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    Nope.
     
  7. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    Because I've got more testing/experimenting to do. Maybe I should have held off from posting about the 222 Low-Drag until my testing was complete, I'm just excited and wanted to share some of it. I know at some point some with better skills, techniques, and equipment will have to get involved and really find out what it's capable of, I'm just a starting point trying to gather what little I'm capable. You guys here could do so much more with it - I know that.

    Sorry about the not so flashy name, It was relatively easy one to call it.
     
  8. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    There's more to come.
     
  9. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    Not at all trying to "
    scrap the wisdom
    that's been gained earlier and shouldn't casually ignore safe limits that have been defined
    by the work of others.
    ". No disrespect at all but what "earlier" & "others" data should/could I look to for what I'm doing?

    I agree, I don't think some would intentionally "horn in" but because of my lack of experience this could be done much quicker by those with more experience and I'd like to at least be the first to experiment.

    I wasn't aware that I've argued to an answer of a question that I've asked. If so I apologize. I am trying to accept all thoughtful suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  10. Lucky Shooter

    Lucky Shooter Gold $$ Contributor

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    Peace, Brother.

    A. Weldy
     
    deadduck357 likes this.
  11. Evan

    Evan

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    I'm just busting your butt. :p There's nothing wrong with 222 Low Drag.
     
    deadduck357 likes this.
  12. xswanted

    xswanted Gold $$ Contributor

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    Unfortunately I have a cartridge in the works that will make this obsolete. It’s very secretive but it’s being called the 222 VLD or Very Low Drag.

    Im also working on the improved version of the 222 VLD called the 222ELD, (Even Less Drag as well as the 222 BNDW (Basically No Drag Whatsoever)

    I’m running these all with 18”. 95 SMKs are traveling a touch over 3400fps with only 14.3 grains of powder.

    Chamber pressures are pretty close to the top of safe levels, last I checked they peaked just over 103,000 psi. The ported chamber helps move this pressure to the outside of the case though.

    No more info on this one fore now.
     
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  13. a1712

    a1712 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Are you using a proprietary 6" freebore, or can't you discuss at this time? Brian.
     
  14. xswanted

    xswanted Gold $$ Contributor

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    What’s freebore?
     
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  15. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    Gotcha.

    Hey you haven't responded to the .200 datum findings in post #38. What do you think, what's your take on them? Outside the expected? Time to trash? Primer pockets are still ok.
     
  16. deadduck357

    deadduck357

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    I get it, that's funny lol.
     
  17. H65

    H65

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    You should probably abandon your efforts and await my 222 DeLorean, or 222DL. Think 243 to 224 squeezebore. Like throwing a hot dog down a hallway. With its gain twist flux capacitor it easily achieves 88 mph.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  18. linebaugh

    linebaugh Silver $$ Contributor

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    "Pressure aleviating chamber" ... Do tell?

    Here is my best guess:
    Goes in as a 222 improved and comes out as a .22-338 lapua. Uses a special set of "brass revitalization" dies to go with the pressure aleviating chamber to reload properly.

    Everyone who reads this post knows you are operating squarely in the realm of BS and even then many have been very nice and respectable to you though I do now think you deserve none of it. Your own case capacity numbers coupled with the velocity you are posting for 75gr bullets say it all. No need to go any farther. The end.

    At any rate to finish on a nice note. Again the cartridge may prove to be very accurate and efficient and could have merit on its own. Stick to operating back about 2750 fps where it should probably be and then get back to us with an accuracy report. You might get some respect back then, everyone would play nice and most would be eager to hear more.

    Best of luck but please quit posting if every post is going to be defending a round that is obviously dangerously over pressure. Also, no not chamber or promote that round in an AR platform as it will break the bolt lugs and get you (or worse, someone else) hurt.
     
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  19. Drop Port

    Drop Port

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    It's good to see people out there are having fun with new wildcat cartridges. Some gain traction some don't. The ones that are true improvement or accomplish something special often catch on. And every now and then a newly designed cartridge really takes off. Unfortunately there area dozens of designs that fall into the ATUC design and go the way of the dodo bird or are just enjoyed by the designer.
     
  20. Evan

    Evan

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    That point shouldn't be growing. That said, if your reamer (and chamber) measure at 3769, and your brass is all around 375, then that's perfectly acceptable. A tight chamber reamer may be spec'ed at 0.001 total gap, (i.e. 376 chamber when brass measures 375) which works but requires considerably more care. Pay close attention to your extraction during bolt lift. It can be a subtle change if you're slowly approaching dangerous pressure. When pressure is too high and folks talk about hard bolt lift, that's because the case is no longer springing back from the chamber walls and your extractor is having to pull it free against all that friction. A case that does that could very well be trashed due to the excessive pressure flowing the brass. If your sizing die is bringing that datum point back down to a uniform size and nothing is sticky during bolt close or open, then you're just accepting that brass life will be shorter and that you're pushing it hard with high pressures. Part of the 6BR and 6.5x47 designs are a very strong, overbuilt case head and base walls that allow for more extreme pressures. The 222 was designed in a different time and does not have the same durability designed in.

    This is where a benchrest rifle with a well timed ignition system is helpful. A proper BR setup is slick as glass under normal conditions so when you feel any sort of hitch or drag in the bolt, you feel it and you know. A factory action or any action without exceptional care applied to the timing and ignition will communicate those changes with less transparency, making it much more difficult to inch up to the edge safely.
     

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