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221 Fireball and 69gn class of bullets

Evan

I put up a thread about a 22 Vartarg and after consideration, I decided a straight 221 Fireball was a better path. I looked at the ballistics a bit and like the idea of running the 69gn class of match bullets at (hopefully) 2750fps or so. This gun would be a target (paper and metal) gun only, and it would cover 0-300yds or so. I think I'd like to have a BAT S made, and run a 30" heavy barrel. Given the single shot, I'd load long. Based on a 69gn SMK I have here, I think I could load to a COAL of 2" and the bullet wouldn't intrude into the boiler room at all but still have most all of the neck gripping the bullet. Packing in the powder, maybe I could approach 20gns of a slower powder (H322 or RL10x maybe?). I don't think I need to worry about chasing the lands and running out of neck (correct me if I'm wrong).

So here are the questions:

What do you think about my chances of getting at least 2750 out of the 221 with 69gn bullets?

What twist would be recommended? Sierra list 1:10, but I worry that's more for 223 speeds. Should I go with a 1:9?

None of my manuals have data going above 55gn bullets. How would a person go about creating a safe load for a heavy bullet with slower powders in something as small as a 221?

Add on to the previous question: if someone has quickload, and knows the volume of 221 Lapua brass, what does a 69 SMK look like with RL10x or similar?

The thought has occurred to me that the triple deuce is a much better cartridge for what I'm proposing, but I feel pretty ambivalent towards it. The Fireball calls to me; it seems like it's the "right size" proportionally for the caliber and I love how frugal it is with powder.
 
Years ago I built a 6/221 and shot mostly light for caliber bullets from Ed Watson,they were 61’s and 62’s.This gun was a hoot to shoot and it was mostly just for fun,I wondered how the better expansion ratio of the 6mm would work with the small case.I think your idea is interesting and while you may not get the speed you want,the beauty is you can go in later and chamber for the 222 or 22/204 and have a more powerful round without a ton more money spent.When you have an idea that must be scratched you must pursue it or it will have you wondering about it forever.I think 8208 or 10X would be a good start,just watch your pressures closely.I think a 22ppc would be a cool one to try with the 69’s,but I think you should probably leave that BAT unchanged with a small .378” boltface.Hope your project works to your satisfaction,looking forward to pictures and your results.I would definitely choose a 9 twist and with 30 inches of barrel you may get close to the speed you want,you certainly will have lots of room to rechamber later if needed.I wish I had Lapua 221FB brass 30 years ago:)
Matt
 
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So from what I could find, lapua 221FB case capacity is 19.6gns.

I ran a few numbers and thought everyone might be interested. At 300 yards, assuming a 5yd distance error and a 2mph wind error on top of 5mph, I compared the maximum error between the 221FB shooting 68gn Hornady match at 2650fps to my 6.5 creedmoor shooting a 147 ELDM at 2750fps.

The 221FB would fall out by a maximum of 2.4" due to errors above.

The 6.5 falls out a maximum of 1.1".

This is a delta of 0.4MOA. For this degradation in performance, I'd save 650 dollars each year on the approximately 2600 rounds I shoot per year (50 per week) due to cheaper bullets and less powder. Pretty cool!

Edit: Another cool factoid: shooting the 221FB at 300 yards is ballistically similar to the 6.5 creedmoor at 475ish.
 
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I want to know how much gain your 68-70 has on a 53 vmax at 300yds?

I have a couple 221 rounds on the loading bench, Itty Bitty.
 
I thought that I'd come back and tie this up a bit. I've decided to build a 20 Vartarg. The hordes of people who rave about them; the handful of guys who are competing with them in 100/200 benchrest and ending up in the same standings they were shooting a 6ppc; all of it just seemed like the writing was on the wall and I should get the 20 Vartarg and spend the extra 100 bucks in cleaning and reloading equipment to tool up for 20 caliber.
 
I have both a 221 Fireball and a 20 Vartarg. Both are used exclusively for prairie dogs once or twice a year. Since your plan is toward paper and metal I also have some experience with a 222 that has some bearing on things. I shot the 222 in UBR competition for 4-5 years and had some success. However I found that even though accuracy was great at 100/200 yards, wind had significant effects past 100. I have concluded that this was due to the lower speed than say, a 6PPC. I think you will find that using a lighter bullet will give you better results. If you push the envelope you can get 3800 FPS or so from both of these cartridges. Maybe a little less with the FB using a 40gr, but the factor of getting to the target quicker will make up the difference. Either one at 300 yards in the wind will get pushed around quite a bit. I'll make one other suggestion that you probably haven't considered. For the past 5 years I've competed with a 220 Beggs (220 Russian with a neck/shoulder radius to inhibit case stretch). I've won a fair amount of fake wood with it. A 53gr bullet will be a little over 3500 and a 57gr will be a bit less. Both are very competitive with a 6PPC. This round requires no fire forming and is easy to tune in addition to being extremely accurate. Like Casey Stengel said "you could look it up".

Rick
 
one of the most accurate loads i found in a 221 was a case full of n133 with 53 gr sierra. Could not get enough powder in the case to show any pressure signs. With heavier bullets it may shine also. Bruce
 
esp42089 said:
I thought that I'd come back and tie this up a bit. I've decided to build a 20 Vartarg. The hordes of people who rave about them; the handful of guys who are competing with them in 100/200 benchrest and ending up in the same standings they were shooting a 6ppc; all of it just seemed like the writing was on the wall and I should get the 20 Vartarg and spend the extra 100 bucks in cleaning and reloading equipment to tool up for 20 caliber.
Click to expand...

Fun idea! I'd order a 9 twist 20 cal barrel for the 55gr Berger. Mine worked well with 40's also.

I shoot a version of 20-221 AI, I just finalized load developement earlier this week, 5 touching. Even got some hits at 620Y on a 1' steel with 32 vmax.
 
steve123 said:
Fun idea! I'd order a 9 twist 20 cal barrel for the 55gr Berger. Mine worked well with 40's also.

I shoot a version of 20-221 AI, I just finalized load developement earlier this week, 5 touching. Even got some hits at 620Y on a 1' steel with 32 vmax.
Click to expand...



20moa rail?
 
Gabe22BR said:
20moa rail?
Click to expand...

I wish, no it's actually biased the other way, I was topped out at 3 mils, just the way the scope sits in the rings on my CZ527.

The scope is a 1" tube so there's not much travel.

The mounting situation is a tough one because if I get a 20 moa Pic rail and low rings, the scope will sit higher than I want. Right now there a 16th of an inch between the objective and the barrel and it's still slightly high for my eye.
 
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