21st Century Shooting Hydro Bullet Seater

Discussion in 'Reloading Forum (All Calibers)' started by farmer44, Dec 9, 2015.

  1. farmer44

    farmer44 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Has anyone used or have any opinions on this product. Thanks in advance
     
  2. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock True believer - Straight 284 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I just loaned mine out to a friend so he could try before buying. On the first 20 he loaded, he found a 50 ES in seating pressures... That might translate into vertical.

    I like mine, but like anything else, it doesn't do its magic alone. You will have to have some technique (not difficult at all) in how you use it to realize its benefits.

    Is it necessary to get great 1000 yard vertical? No.
    Is it really nice to be able to sort out that one round that seats funny? You bet!
     
  3. farmer44

    farmer44 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks Keith I think I will try to find a used one for santa to bring me lol
     
  4. dkhunt14

    dkhunt14

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    That depends on what shooting discipline. If your in Benchrest, vertical will make you lose. We took a pound measuring load cell and tested the 21st Century and the K&M. They both were pretty accurate. One measured a little under what the gauge said and one measured a little over. I can't remember which one was which. I did like the feel of the K&M better. One thing I did notice is you have seat really slow to get good readings. They are both quality products. Matt
     
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  5. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock True believer - Straight 284 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I put a small scale under the die in my 21st century. It showed 15 lbs right when the gauge started to move. 20 PSI - 35 lbs of force.

    It really doesn't matter the actual force, it is the consistency that matters.

    I also agree that EVERYTHING matters when shooting for group. I'm a score guy, so I'll leave the group discussion to the experts.
     
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  6. Sniper338

    Sniper338

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    I have a force i feel with mine and like... usually readys between 45 and 60 on the guage for what i like. But as what was said its consistancy, not exact pressure numbers on the guage... i love it... ot made me change bushings for everything... i was really cramming bullets in tight with a big press and not knowing it... with an arbor press you feel the force and know when it aint right by feel...

    I accidently used too much force on mine and messed up thw guage where it dont zero... its easy to do.. thats when i figured out i need bigger bushings because it was seating too hard.. still works tho... just gotta see consistancy.. its helped me a lot
     
  7. BenPerfected

    BenPerfected Gold $$ Contributor

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    I did the same thing on pegging the gauge and now it no longer returns to zero. Sent it back to 21st Century to get it repaired or the gauge replaced at my expense. They did nothing, returned it and weren't interested in replacing the gauge. Their position was I didn't follow the directions...FYI
    Ben
     
  8. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock True believer - Straight 284 Gold $$ Contributor

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    Fluid damped gauges aren't terribly hard to find. You can probably find one and change it yourself.

    BTW, in bleeding the air out of the hydraulics on mine, I found that the hydraulic fluid used smells suspiciously like baby oil. I'm an airplane guy and have a deep seated anxiety about air in hydraulic systems... The air wasn't really a problem.

    I would really like to increase the fluid level inside the gauge (different from the hydraulic fluid) because the top of the fluid is a line between the 40 and 60 on the gauge. John is really against the idea of adding fluid to the gauge. It's only been a year, and I still haven't decided if I'm going to or not.
     
  9. Dusty Stevens

    Dusty Stevens COVFEFE Gold $$ Contributor

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    Putting glycerine in a gauge is for vibration dampening. You can dump all that out, add more, replace the gauge whatever you want to do. I dont think vibration is gonna tear the gauge up on a reloading bench but it does look cool
     
  10. 21shooter

    21shooter Site $$ Sponsor

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    I did the same thing on pegging the gauge and now it no longer returns to zero. Sent it back to 21st Century to get it repaired or the gauge replaced at my expense. They did nothing, returned it and weren't interested in replacing the gauge. Their position was I didn't follow the directions...FYI
    Ben
    Hi Ben,,I don't recall this, I must have had a bad day. I didn't fix it?
    Please call or email me. 260-273-9909
    Thanks, John
     
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  11. jlow

    jlow

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    Just in case you guys missed it, but the demo unit they use on their website in the video also do not return to zero... Not really a big deal....
     
  12. dm.oakes

    dm.oakes Lead thrower Silver $$ Contributor

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    I'm the friend that Keith was referring to. The 500 yard F-Class match this last weekend yielded the following results

    Rounds that were within 2-4 PSI (roughly 11) stayed within a pretty tight waterline

    Rounds that were spread across 50 PSI (about 8-10) bounced from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock on the 9 ring on the 500 yard F-Class target.

    I now have proof there is something screwy with either my brass prep process or my brass itself. Based on conversation with Keith on Saturday there may very well be a donut in the neck.
     
  13. Articwarfare

    Articwarfare

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    I have machinery grey dust covers available for the extended base version if anybody is interested.
    Thanks Frank
     
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  14. dwcon

    dwcon Gold $$ Contributor

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    I had a K and M liked it then went to 21 century and I like it better they do first class work
     
  15. Rope2horns

    Rope2horns Norm Harrold Gold $$ Contributor

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    The 21st Century Hydro seater is a nice tool....Mine also sprung zero....totally my fault, contacted John he offered to fix it immediately,,I was just to lazy to send it in.

    That said I'm not sure seating pressure totally correlates with neck tension. More with how much the necks are lubed seems like to me.
    Try checking the numbers on a unlubed case,,a slightly lubed case,,and a highly lubed case. Those numbers will vary even though the case's have virtually the same amount of neck tension.

    Where do you draw the line?

    Mine very seldom varies over 10psi across the board and certainly not over 20psi...and I cant see/shoot the difference between 30psi or 40psi during a 20 round Fclass string.
     
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  16. Vitold-23

    Vitold-23

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    Hello.
    Do you know how to refill hydraulic liquid on this seater?

     
  17. fguffey

    fguffey

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    And I said many times there has to be something reloaders do not understand about reloading and now I can add there is something reloaders do not understand about gages. I have gages, lots of gages, when I use a pressure gage I am required to zero the gage. If I find I am spending too much time zeroing the gage I decide the gage is a cheap gage, for me? not a problem; I have replacement gages.

    And then there is the gage I do not need, it is over a foot long and measures pressure in hundredth. From minimum to maximum it measures 1 pound.

    F. Guffey
     
  18. Milo 2.0

    Milo 2.0 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I was accused of not understanding neck tension or bullet hold by the guru the other day.
    What you said here makes sense, but it is all part of the process. If the unlubed case is the gold standard, by applying lube you are manipulating the data. Of coarse it is going to change.
    EDIT: As you apply lube, your standard has now changed to the degree of lubrication.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  19. 1shot

    1shot Site $$ Sponsor

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    Mr. Guffey,
    What in the world does your post have anything to do with either the OP question or the topic of repair?
    I’m not trying to be critical, just trying to make sense of it.
    Thanks,

    Lloyd
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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  20. group therapy

    group therapy Silver $$ Contributor

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    ?
     

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