208 AMAX in 308win

Discussion in 'Big Stuff -- 6.5mm, 7mm, 30 Cal' started by coyotehunter, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. coyotehunter

    coyotehunter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    Well I thought I would never be able to shoot any 208's in my 308 remington vsf. Thought the chamber was crooked. Turns out I had some crappy brass. Found some new winchester brass and loaded some up. Started with 48 grains of Reloader 17. Got right at 2630fps. Went up to 48.5 and got right at 2650 this load shot real well. Right at an inch at 400 yards. I went up to 49 grains and got an average velocity of 2706fps with an extreme spread of 9fps. I was very impressed. Bolt lift was a little firm so I am going to drop down to 48.8 grains to save brass life. Seating depth is 3.065 inches using Federal 215m primers. Hope to still stay close to 2700 but loose a little pressure.
     
  2. HillbillySniper

    HillbillySniper Send It!

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Messages:
    437
    That's pretty good shooting for a 308 sending the big 208 amax down range!


    Hillbilly
     
  3. Johnboy

    Johnboy

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    481
    see with a little time you CAN get the 208 and R17 to work for ya.good shooting and load work.just load up alot now and really see how they shoot.
     
  4. coyotehunter

    coyotehunter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    Thanks man. Im just so glad my chamber isn't crooked. I hope that dropping down 2 tenths doesn't loose much velocity. I plan to take it out to 1000 yards this weekend.
     
  5. Keith Glasscock

    Keith Glasscock Team Benchmark Site $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,486
    Do let us know how it shoots.

    I've been toying with the idea of trying RE-17, but reports of temperature intolerance has me wondering if I should even dedicate the resources to trying it.

    Right now, I'm launching 208's at 2485 with Varget. Accuracy is good, and the temperature tolerance is typical Varget - very good.
     
  6. coyotehunter

    coyotehunter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    Ive shot it both at 62 degrees and 91 degrees and havent had any problems.
     
  7. FroggyOne2

    FroggyOne2

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,908
    Shot what both in 62 degrees and 91 degrees?
     
  8. coyotehunter

    coyotehunter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    I was referring to the temperature tollerance issues with reloader 17
     
  9. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,706
    Those are some serious loads and MVs for the 208 even in thin Winchester brass and with a (very long) 3.065" COAL. Most people can't get 49gn Re17 into the case even using a long drop tube. I reckon you're only getting away with it through having a 'roomy' chamber and very long throat. Most custom built rifles will blow primers or worse long before 49gn unless they've been throated specifically for the 208/210gn bullets, so I'd counsel others to use caution before copying these loads.

    2,706 fps is a REALLY high MV from a 26" factory barrel with this bullet. That's 3,383 ft/lbs ME, equivalent to belting a 155 out at 3,135 fps MV. F/TR shooters are getting those sorts of MV/MEs - only just - from 30-32" barrels and with serious loads that shouldn't be tried by those who expect long case life. I'd advise people who want to try Re17 and heavy (200 + gn) bullets to start a lot lower at around 44 or 45gn even if your rifle's throat allows this COAL, even lower still if you have seat the bullet deeper, and even more so if using other makes of case. My Barnard / Broughton F/TR rifle's chamber (minimum SAAMI spec) produces fired Winchester cases with a water capacity of 56.9gn and thicker Lapua drops to 55.6gn. Feed these capacities into QuickLOAD with Coyoteshooter's 3.065" COAL and 49gn Re17 is calculated to produce 62,190 psi with that capacity Win brass, 65,845 psi with the Lapua, both over SAAMI PMax for .308 Win. Since my chamber's throat requires me to seat bullets a tenth of an inch deeper, I couldn't use anywhere near that load with Lapua brass.

    Also, .... 210gn Bergers at equivalent seating depths / COALs to the 208gn A-Max produce around 5,000 psi higher pressures with Re17, so you'd be up to 70,000 psi in Lapua brass with this bullet and 49gn Re17. At the 2.95" or so that my chamber dictates, QuickLOAD calculates a fill-ratio of 110% and 81,471 psi pressure with the 210gn Berger BT Long-Range and 49gn Re17.

    So, .... I'm not saying 49gn Re17 is an impossible load, but is (a) right on the limit and (b) applies only to this bullet in a slack and very long-throated chamber using thin-walled brass. So, be VERY careful before copying it, and use a starting load that is really well down unless these exact same conditions apply! Incidentally, for those thinking of trying Re17 in .308 Win, there is a growing amount of evidence that it doesn't work over well with bullets weighing less than 200gn, in fact only comes into its own with heavy loads under the 208 and 210gn bullets.

    Laurie,
    York, England
     
  10. coyotehunter

    coyotehunter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    I worked up this load from 47 grains. I also stated that I am backing off to 48.8 grains just to relieve a little bolt lift pressure. With Varget and 175 Sierra's I am loading 46.5 grains and shooting 2834 fps. I would agree with Laurie to start lower I just got the luck of the draw with this rifle.
     
  11. 308RUG

    308RUG

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    51
    In the last match rifle championships here In Aust some of us were running 208g Amax projectiles using 49.4 of the H414/H4350 equivalent in the ADI range of powder(ADI2209) and using CCI Magnum primers with velocities just above 2700fps punching them 1200yards with pretty good accuracy. Having said that we were all using 32'' barrels chambered for the longer projectiles and the once fired Win cases were loaded to the hilt. Although none of the cases were tight to extract the primers were getting slight cratering around the firing pin hole.

    Under no circumstance should this load be copied as a starting load. We spent a few months carefully working up the loads before the match and had a lot of experience between us in dealing with these kinds of loads.
    The idea of this post is just to let you know what we achieved with 208g Amax in .308win :)
     
  12. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,706
    I'd imagine you're using relatively 'tight' spec bore / groove specs too in your match barrels, almost certainly a bit tighter than a factory Remy. So your loads would be expected to perform considerably slower in a 26" length tube, especially a relatively 'slack' hammer forged factory job - somewhere between 200-300 fps MV less.

    That makes your load the equivalent of maybe 2,500 fps in Coyotehunter's Remy, or his load the equivalent of 2,900 fps + in your rifle. British Match Rifle shooters are getting around 2,800 fps I believe from 210gn SMKs and Bergers in their specially chambered and throated rifles using Viht N550, equivalent in burning rate terms to the 4350s / ADI2209. Conversely I blew a primer with 45.4gn N550 and the 210gn Berger BT in Lapua brass in my more conservatively throated 30" Broughton in relatively low (high 50s F) temperatures a few weeks ago. This was at around 2,630 fps. The small primer Lapua 'Palma' brass lets me run this load and a little heavier without apparent pressure problems, but groups and ES spreads are disappointing - double those of standard LR primer Lapua. I've tried Re17 with the Berger BT and it works well, but have stuck to lower MVs - 2,520 fps sees tiny 100yd groups. I doubt very much if I can reach the next sweet spot in the 2,600s safely - I'm running 100% full cases at 44gn.

    When you use bullets of this weight and length in the cartridge (likewise 90s in .223 Rem), throat length becomes crucial. Most people's gunsmith built rifles (as opposed to some very long-throated and slack chambered factory jobs) will not allow loads being widely quoted on this forum or anything close safely. The old rule of knocking at least 10% off other people's loads is doubly useful here - I do worry that many readers of these posts won't understand the freebore / pressure relationship issue here and will use over-high starting loads that could prove really excessive.
     
  13. 308RUG

    308RUG

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    51
    Hiya Laurie,
    Good quality custom made barrels are certainly the way to go if one is to push for the most from loads and projectiles and to do so safely. Id like to think the users of this forum have enough sense and want for self preservation to seek out and digest the knowledge to experiment with loads that exceed anything other than what is laid out in the tables of tried and tested loads in the numerous reloading manuals available.
    The use of the win cases was good for allowing the extra room for the larger loads, on the flip side the work that goes into the case prep(trimming weighing and batching) and the limited life span of the cases was the trade off. 4 loads and the cases were discarded. Although very close to, none of the loads were compressed. Any rounds that felt tight to press or not to exact specs were pulled apart and the case discarded. Needless to say the three hundred rounds loaded for the comp and extras for subsequent practice shoots took a lot of time and patience. All the rifles(5) used by the team had velocities between 2700 and 2800 with the largest spread being 12fps all of them running loads within .6 grains of each other and using the same projectiles(208 Amax).
    5 factory rifles although these days the quality of them coming off the production line are generally of a high standard I doubt would achieve the same results.
    Further more I myself, although I load to shoot comps every weekend would not have tried these loads without the experience and knowledge of the other team members. Some of whom have been on the Australian Match Rifle team and shooting/loading for at least 25 years.
     
  14. Laurie

    Laurie Site $$ Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,706
    The old joke about Match Rifle shooters' .308W chambers and the subsequent fireformed brass they produce is that the resulting round should be renamed - .30-06 being a contender! An exaggeration of course, but with a grain of truth in it like all good jokes.

    Talking thin brass, I have several hundred ultra-thin 1980s Norma cases, the so-called 160gn examples. They're not much different from the thinnest Winchester batches, higher capacity if anything and very high quality. I was told British MR shooters thought them the answer to their prayers many years ago, but abandoned them after it was found they simply weren't strong enough in the case-web to body junction area. They make great short-range loads though in tight chambers.

    Thanks for the information on the loads and shooting circumstances - anything different from elsewhere is always interesting and valuable - we spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel, somebody having experimented 10 years ago and his results forgotten, or done elsewhere and not known.

    On Re17 loads, my concern over some being quoted is that there isn't any data that are ballistics lab produced to compare them against - that's why this forum is full of threads on the lines of "Has anybody tried Re17 in this cartridge?", or "in this cartridge with the other bullet?" There is precious little in the manuals anyway for extreme weight bullets - over 200gn in .308W and 80gn in .223R - and what there is often relates to standard COALs which is of little value when trying to see what you can do with a custom throated barrel with a quarter-inch freebore for instance.

    If you take up long-range F Class, I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself. It's a demanding but very satisfying discipline. Here in the UK, F Class (ie 'Open') started out as the norm, but there is a steady move to F/TR (.308 or .223, restricted overall weight and mandatory bi-pod use instead of a front-rest) at national league level because of cost and barrel life issues. Most league rounds now run 60/40 in favour of F/TR.
     
  15. coyotehunter

    coyotehunter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    Shot out to 600 yards Saturday morning with the 208's loaded with 48.8 grains of powder. Velocities were right at 2690 and shooting well. I didn't get the chance to run them out any futher but from the groups Im seeing at 500 and 600 yards the load should do well going to install a muzzle break before the next outing.
    I am always shooting my 6br and my new 6mm super lr so the 308 gets slid to the back from time to time. It is alway fun to pull it out and get reminded of what the old remy will do. Got the opportunity to shoot a Sharps buffolo rifle chamber in 50-90 sharps saturday. What an experience. And what some recoil.
     

Share This Page