20 TAC...Forming Brass ? Have Redding Form and FL die set...

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by daleboy, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    I just picked up a bolt action 20 Tac . I have the Redding form die and the FL die set. I have searched the web and can't find any info on using this combo . Can someone explain how to use this setup to make 20 Tac with my .223 brass or point me in the right direction to proper info or a video please ? Thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. GAnderson

    GAnderson Silver $$ Contributor

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    Lube your 223 brass and run it thru the form die...load it and shoot it...use the full length die after that. It's that simple as long as it isn't some "tight" neck chamber. It wouldn't hurt to try to know what the chamber dimensions actually are in case you might have to trim the brass or turn necks.

    Gene
     
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  3. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks Gene,I was hoping it was that easy...I tend to over think most things .The rifle is a Remington 700 built by Gre-Tan rifles,Pac-nor barrel w/ 13 twist and .233 neck . Just got the rifle so the caliber and rifle are new to me.
     
  4. chuckshooter

    chuckshooter Silver $$ Contributor

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    A lot depends on your brass. new or how many firings? has it been annealed? I found the forming die left dents or small buckling in the shoulder. I just ended up using the FL die. you can two step it if you have a FL 223 die, take out the expander ball, one pass with it and then next pass with the FL die. I think there are a lot of ways to get to where you want, but what's most important is to screw the die in a little at a time for the final fit and keep checking the brass in the chamber , so you are not sizing it down too small. it's unlikely but possible. I have 2 tactical's and three practical's and when the practicals get shot out , I will rechamber them to 20T's. I think you made a good choice.
     
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  5. GAnderson

    GAnderson Silver $$ Contributor

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    My first 20 Tac (years ago)was also a Gre-Tan with a Pac-Nor 13 twist barrel...this was also back when Hornady only made the 33gr v-max...they discontinued that and went to the 32gr v-max as well as finally adding the 40gr v-max. Unfortunately, the 13 twist is going to limit you to the light bullets...probably the 35gr Berger will be as heavy as you can go. The .233 neck should be OK, but some military brass and the Dakota/Lapua 20Tac brass measure right at .232 loaded round. Just check your loaded round diameter just to be sure you are OK. The 20Tac is a very efficient and accurate cartridge.

    Gene
     
  6. John Russell

    John Russell

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    I built a 20 Tac on a Remington XR-100 single shot action, with a 10" twist 26" Kreiger barrel (1" at the muzzle). The chamber is a 2.5 thou no turn neck.
    I bought the #1 form die, plus a FL die, a comp seater and a comp bushing neck sizer. Then I bought 200 Lapua .223 cases.

    I started with Lake City brass to set up the dies (I used RCBS-II case lube) - and I did not like the way the #1 form die worked... so I sold it.

    I annealed some GI brass and using Redding comp shell holders, I just ran the annealed 223 cases into the FL die. I started with the +10, and changed them until closing the bolt was a very snug fit.
    Once the dies were set up, I annealed the Lapua cases, lubed them, and ran them all through the FL die.

    All the cases came out perfectly, all chambered easily after the first firing
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  7. GAnderson

    GAnderson Silver $$ Contributor

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    It really surprises me that some have had issues with the form die. As stated, I have had 20 Tacticals for a long time and have run in excess of 3K pieces of 223 brass thru the form die and never "lost" a case...have used Remington 223, Winchester 223, LC 223, Lapua 223, IMI SS109 223 brass and with the exception of having to turn the necks on the Lapua and IMI SS109, I have never had a problem chambering any brass run thru the form die. My chambers are .232 necks and I have to remove .002 from the lapua and IMI necks...all other 223 brass did not require neck turning with this chamber. I've just loaded them and shot them straight from the form die without issue...it really was that simple. I suppose that some more recent chamber reamers by different reamer companies or gunsmiths could have been spec'd out a little different and maybe do not chamber as well straight from the form die nowadays.

    Back to the original poster, unless Gre-Tan has changed his reamer(s), you should be good right out of the form die because my first 20Tac was a Gre-Tan rifle and it worked fine. You will just have to try it and see...the good thing is, that you have the FL die and can use the other posters' method if the form die doesn't get it.
    I currently use the Dakota/Lapua 20 Tac brass, I purchased a significant amount of it when it was manufactured and have been using it now for quite some time. Hate the fact that they quit making the 20 Tac brass.

    Gene
     
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  8. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Great info,thanks . I have 100 Lapua 20 Tac to start,and plenty of .223 brass to form . I formed some the other day buy running it into the seating die w/out plug and then in the FL die . It took some trial and error but I got it figured out pretty well. I just picked up the forming die from the original owner and was not sure what to expect...I had read about folks having problems with the forming die so I thought I would ask here.

    I was looking for a 700 in 223 when I came across the 20 Tac,figured a new challenge was in order ...and this rifle is nice. I am only shooting paper out to 300 yards so I want to load as mild as possible,kinda defeats the purpose of the 20 Tac but I don't need it screaming .

    The Lapua brass just makes it,the PPU brass I formed has plenty of room in the neck .I have all kinds of 223 brass so I will be experimenting with that also.
     
  9. 17VLD

    17VLD

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    Greg built me a 20 Tactical improved many years ago when a 13 twist was all that was available.I am able to shoot the 40 Berger in mine very well.
    It is a short bullet as 40’s go,but it hammers coyotes and it is extremely accurate.Good luck with your 20Tac Dale,it sounds like a very nice rifle.
    If you ever see any 33V-Max’s for sale ,buy ‘em:D
    Matt
     
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  10. jepp2

    jepp2 Gold $$ Contributor

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    I don't have a 20T, but I do have 20P's and 20 Bobcats all with .233 necks. I haven't had to turn necks on anything. But Lapua loaded is ~.2305" measured with a mic good to 0.0001". I haven't had any issues at all. Everything else has plenty of clearance.

    I have found the 20 calibers very addictive. The results of those high speed bullets on prairie dogs are pretty impressive.
     
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  11. Varmint Shooter

    Varmint Shooter

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    I form all my 20 Tactical brass from 223 brass using a Hornady FL sizing die. One pass, perfectly formed
    20 tactical brass.
     
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  12. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the info,I will surely give the 40 gn Bergers a try...I wonder if the 33gn V-max(#22002) are the same dimensions as the new 32s ? Going to experiment with these 33s before I give the 32s a serious look.
     
  13. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    I loaded up some Lapua and it is good to go .Formed some Winchester and PPU,plenty of room with those . Hope to get to the range soon .
     
  14. GAnderson

    GAnderson Silver $$ Contributor

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    33gr v-maxes are no longer in production and have not been for quite some time...you will have to find someone that still has a stash hidden somewhere. The only 40gr bullets I am aware of are V-maxes, Bergers and BIB's and those are fairly long bullets...it will be a stretch if these will work in a 13 twist but you will have a lot of fun trying all the various bullets out and maybe they will work.

    Gene
     
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  15. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Ok,I was wondering about those 33s. I have some 32gn Blitzkings and 35 gn Bergers to start with. Looking forward to this project.
     
  16. GAnderson

    GAnderson Silver $$ Contributor

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    I think you will find either one of those to be a very accurate bullet...what powder(s) are you experimenting with?
     
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  17. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    I have H4895, Varget and Ramshot X-Terminator . Hoping one of them will shine.
     
  18. GAnderson

    GAnderson Silver $$ Contributor

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    Back when I had my 13 twist, Exterminator worked really well. The guy that owns it now has re-barreled it and uses 8208 powder with the 35gr Berger...my current "go to" powders are 8208 and A2520...Rem 7 1/2 primers seem to work really well in the Tac also. Keep us posted how this thing shoots and post some pics of the rifle.:)
     
  19. daleboy

    daleboy Silver $$ Contributor

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    Will do,will update as I go .The guy that had this rifle built said Exterminator was his favorite .I have CCI 400 and 450s,will have to give the Remingtons 7 1/2s a try.
     
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  20. pmg

    pmg

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    My old 13 twist loved the 35 Berger but I never did try the 33 vmax. Sent it back to Gre-Tan and had an 11 twist screwed on and it loves the 35 Berger. I’m using the Dakota brass, like Gene said above 8208 and a 71/2. I might have to get another one just to shoot another bullet!! The 20tac is a great round and I hope you like yours.
     
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