17 fireball brass question

Discussion in 'Small Stuff--22s, 20s, and 17s' started by bobcat93, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. bobcat93

    bobcat93 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Is it better to form brass for the 17 fireball from lapua 221 fireball brass and end up with a short neck, or to form brass from 223 and trim the neck to proper length?.
     
  2. kmcdonou

    kmcdonou

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    Although I am new to the 17 Fireball as well and would love other opinions on the benefits/drawbacks at using 223 versus 221 Fireball brass to make 17 FB, Catshooter (a member here) said on a different forum when asked the same thing:

    I have been told that if you form 17FB brass from 221FB brass the case will be a little short. Is this true?

    "Yeah... but not enough to worry about. The 221 [case] is 1.400" and the 17 [FB] is 1.410. The cases get longer when you neck them down, and get shorter when you form the shoulder - so it all works out in the wash."
     
  3. garyw

    garyw

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    +1 on the above
     
  4. bobcat93

    bobcat93 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Thanks for the comments guy's.
    I didn't think one could go wrong with necking down 221 lapua brass even if it was a little short.. I was going to build an AR-15 in 221 fireball now i ts going to be a 17 fireball. I plan on shooting hornady V-max 25 gr. Bullets.. I believe a 1-9 twist will be best. I also want to stick with an 18" or 20" barrel.. I know a lot of guys say 20-24" but I just can't get my head around that logic. Help me out hear.
    The 221 fireball was made for short barrels now granted the 17 bullet is about 1/2 the weight how can longer barrel help I would think a 24" would just slow it down..and I think about 18" barrel would let that sucker fly ..
    What barrel length do you have on your 17 fireball ? Do you like it , or would you change it.? What bullets do you shoot, and what twist are you working with
     
  5. kmcdonou

    kmcdonou

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    The 17 FB I am getting built isn't an AR, so I am going with a 22" barrel. I have an open thread right now inquiring about the specs for my reamer. I plan to shoot 20-25gr bullets, likely 20gr Vmax, and 21 and 25gr Kindler Golds. Plan to hunt fox and coyote, under 200 yards, and want to keep the furs. I think the 17 FB will be perfect for this.

    As for barrel length and a 17FB, Saubier has a good discussion of that here http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10368. One of the posters, who is quite knowledgeable and also a moderator, did a test with barrel lengths of 20-24" and hardly found any difference between them. That said, they weren't referring to ARs either and I can understand wanting a shorter barrel with those.
     
  6. dedogs

    dedogs

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    kmcdonou, you may become disappointed with the 20 & 25g V-max out of a 17 Fireball on coyotes. Don't know any thing about performance of Kindler golds. dedogs
     
  7. swd

    swd Gold $$ Contributor

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    V Max's work ok on coyotes if slow them down to around 3600-3700. For full tilt coyote loads the 25 Grain Hornady hollow point works fine. I never tried any Kindlers so I can't comment on them other than I've heard they're good.
    The short, necked down 221 brass works just fine. Necking and trimming 223 would be a pita.
    I shoot a 24" Mach 4 and get 4250 with a 20 V Max. I built a 26" for a friend a few years ago and he was getting 4400 with the 20 V Max. And it seemed to respond well to the longer barrel. Both were Mach 4's but there is absolutely no difference in performance with the 17FB. H335 is THE powder.
     
  8. kmcdonou

    kmcdonou

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    I was planning on using the 20gr V-max on fox at around 3,900 fps. Heard they work real well from short to long distances without destroying fur. For coyote, I will going to use a 25gr and keep my shots to 150 yards or so.
     
  9. swd

    swd Gold $$ Contributor

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    Limit your shots to 350 or so ;)
     
  10. bobcat93

    bobcat93 Silver $$ Contributor

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    I was going to form 17 fireball from new lapua 221 fireball brass. I purchased a set of redding deluxe 3 die set and form die #1 ..redding #90504.. Redding also has a form and trim die listed # 83504. I was curious to if this die is needed. Does it help to case form or is it just a trim die..if its just a trim die I will save my money..but if its a critical part of the forming operation I will buy the die. Doe any one have experience using this die set that could chime in.
    Thanks
     
  11. vmaxpro

    vmaxpro Silver $$ Contributor

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    I can share a little on this. I use lapua 221 brass to make my 17 fireball. One noce thing is i had to turn ALOT of rp brass off the necks to get round. The lapua brass didnt have to touch. I dont use form dies, i cut a 204r fl die short and ground a radius on the id. Then just run through 17fb fl die. You can load the lapua brass quite a bit hotter. Accuracy is fantastic
     
  12. bobcat93

    bobcat93 Silver $$ Contributor

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    Vmaxpro,
    Thank you for the comments.
    I don't seem to get much reply on questions about the 221, & .17 fireball cartridges. It seems every one likes the .204 ruger, and 17 mach IV .. And I see there point. I like the 221&17 fireball because I can use the same quality lapua brass . it cost more yes, but money well spent in my opinion it's one less thing to trouble shoot should accuracy be an issue.
    I am just starting out with these cartridges. I picked up a beautiful Thompson center contender in 221 fireball on gun broker, and I'm building an AR-15 in .17 fireball. I haven shot any guns or reloads yet. The Thompson center should be on its way to me now, and I made up some reloads for it. The ar-15 is in parts and might be awhile yet. But I have brass dies and one of the forming dies. None of the brass has been necked down yet..it is all still lapua 221 fireball.
    Well that is what my summer projects are this year..who knows maybe next year it might be the 204 ruger, and the 17 mach IV lol..
    And more input or comments are appreciated
     
  13. vmaxpro

    vmaxpro Silver $$ Contributor

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    Well you picked a couple good calibers. Ive always enjoyed shooting the tc's and Im sure you will too. Check out bellmtcs hes got endless info on there. One thing Id advise against doing since your starting out is dont do any handloads before recieving the gun. I know its tempting, but it can be dangerous as well as a waste of components and time. Trust me, i made the same mistake lol.
     
  14. vmaxpro

    vmaxpro Silver $$ Contributor

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    Heres a 300yard calm day with lapua brass and 20 vmaxes..
     

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  15. hogpatrol

    hogpatrol Gold $$ Contributor

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    That's good shooting at 300. Hell, that's good at 100. :) What's your setup with regards to barrel, action, stock and trigger?
     
  16. vmaxpro

    vmaxpro Silver $$ Contributor

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    Pretty basic really, just extra care in the reloads! 20" bull mcgowen 8.5 twist, no turn, savage 10 action with sav 2 trigger and choate stock, leupold vx3lrt. I can only get that on dead calm days, with pretty much one hole @100. Thats also off a concrete bench with bipod and rear bag. That load was oal of 1.820, lapua brass, rem 7.5, 19.6gr xterminator. 4088fps
     

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