100 yard (real world) repeatable accuracy for 22 LR

Discussion in 'Rimfire & Smallbore' started by linebaugh, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. 67gt350

    67gt350

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    In conversations with Ernie Vande Zande, one of the finest smallbore prone shooters ever , (rest in peace Ernie!) he relayed that the best barrel-ammo combo he had would group at .55" at 100 yds and that to be competitive today, one needed a barrel-ammo combo that would group at .75" or less at 100 yds. I have found that getting to .75" on a consistent, day over day basis is elusive.

    Shooting conventional (or metric) smallbore prone is a never ending journey filled with both pure exhilaration and frustration. The quest for the perfect barrel/ammo/position combination will NEVER be found, on a consistent basis. As soon as you seem to figure it out, it lasts for a while and then you shoot an odd group at 100 yds, or you experience an odd flier or an off call shot. Was it the ammo, the barrel or was my position just a bit off or my grip pressure too tight ? Was that flier at 10 o'clock me or did I shoot in a pick up?

    The questions never ever end ! AND then you run out of your best lot of ammo and start all over again.

    Without getting on the ammo testing and tuning thing, I will note that getting ammo that shoots well at both 50 meters and 100 meters is not always easy.

    Some years ago I asked Ernie to help me get my S--- together which he readily agreed to do (and would do for anybody willing to work). He had me do a check on everything equipment related looking to eliminate any and all variables that could lead to any inconsistency in my group sizes and or overall performance. From grip position, to sight height, to cheek placement, elbow positioning, aperture sizes, iris settings to firing pin springs to my shot process itself etc etc etc. Working with Ernie was a great experience and if he did nothing, his process served to teach me that there was something to be learned from every shot downrange (including sighters).

    Smallbore prone done right requires that you to eliminate as many physical and mental variables as possible, while delivering shots using a repeatable process that enables you to determine just how good your ammo/barrel combo can be.

    Mark D
     
  2. linebaugh

    linebaugh Silver $$ Contributor

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    So this is very typical of what I see at 100 yards with the exception that the horizontal string is typically a bit longer due to wind. There have been groups shot with SK, Eley Augila (match or target?) that are pretty much the same. CCI SV and Blazers are not far behind but I do see more of the fliers with those two.
    If I remember correctly that is 15rnds of eley target and the wind was not that bad. The red dot is .750ish.
    I am running a 10x leupold and will be adding more optical zoom when I get my glass back. I am not sure that will help anything but one can dream. I guess realistically for how I am using the gun and for as good as I think it shoots now I dont see much use in me spending the money for a barrel upgrade to fix a problem that really doesnt exist for my purpose. Of course next yr when I am fitting a new barrel... lol.
     

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  3. Fotheringill

    Fotheringill

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    As above, wind will kill you at 100 and will only maim you at 50.

    Stay away from Eley Black or Tenex for a while. They require narrowing it down to the speed of the lot and lots at i.e. 142 fps vary from lot to lot.

    I would suggest Lapua Midas +, RWS 50 or RWS 100 for consistent speed and see where you go from there. They are not $11/box but more.

    There is so much that can be done to a rimfire, from bedding and pillaring, to tuner to torque on each action screw to triggers down to 2 oz. pull to new barrel to improve accuracy but it ain't going to shoot as straight as a target .223 and heavier.

    Minute of squirrel is what should be expected unless you step up to Anschutz 54 action rifles and upwards and a nice bench set up. Please don't shoot 10 shot groups to analyze. You will be shredding out too much paper on the bull and outwards to be useful. Just as an example, CZ quality control says their standard is 2 MOA at 50 yards. Henry 22's are for mental masturbation pretending to be John Wayne and be ecstatic if you get 3 MOA at 50 yards.
     
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  4. velocette

    velocette Silver $$ Contributor

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    Linebaugh;
    Your group is not far off. Things I would do:
    1, Examine the muzzle crown very carefully. It must be PERFECT.
    2, Your groups show a high left bias. If the wind was from the right that is normal.
    3, Continue to try alternate ammunition. Every .22 RF rifle is a law unto itself and will like different ammo, however I have never found a rifle that did not shoot SK match ammo well, Center X better and Midas + very well. (remember that SK is made by Lapua.
    4, Get a scope with more magnification. With only 10X your crosshairs are almost as big as the X ring. Most smallbore prone shooters use 20 ~ 25x and the benchrest folks use 35x and more.
    5 If you can, increase the overtravel of your trigger a lot. You do NOT want the trigger to come to a hard stop which will slightly move the rifle.
    6, Follow through with a rimfire & std velocity ammo is VERY important due to the very slow bullet speed
    7, side to side dispersion can be caused by poor position even with bags. You MUST be squarely behind the rifle. Yes we know the puny .22 has no recoil but it DOES move in recoil and if you are not square behind the rifle you can get horizontal dispersion (re-read 6 above) If I can get horizontal dispersion with my 14 lb heavy barrel Annie, you can too with your rifle.
    8, practice practice practice. Dry fire using 4, 6, 8 x7/8 drywall anchors as snap caps:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H5WVCS/?tag=accuratescom-20

    Practice some more.
     
  5. drover

    drover

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    There is the option of sending your rifle to the Lapua test center in Mesa AZ. They will test your rifle with multiple ammuntion and provide you the results of what your rifle is truly capable of as far as accuracy.
    Here is a link to an article about how they test and the results they provide. The cost is very reasonable IMO, I plan on sending a couple of my 22's to them within the next few months, to me it will be worth it just to know what they are truly capable of accuracy wise.

    http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/nra/ssusa_201907/index.php#/14

    drover
     
  6. Tempest

    Tempest

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    I'm not going to post pictures or make claims but have shot some really impressive groups with .22LR at 100 yards. What I have found personally was, testing a ton of ammo to find what "your" barrel likes, not someone else's.

    For me it was, Savage rifle, FTR Sinclair bipod and FTR rear bag. Lapua Center X and Eley Yellow box shoots best in "my" rifle.

    Good conditions are a must. A windy day at 100 is like shooting .308 in FTR LR.
     
  7. watercam

    watercam Gold $$ Contributor

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    No one has talked about tuning the action screws! For me the first step when changing lots or brands of ammo. Try it, costs nothing but can make a world of difference:
    1) Loosen both action screws
    2) since you have bedded it no need to stand it on it's butt and tap a time or two
    3) tighten the front and rear action screws in 5 In.Ib increments until both are at 10.
    4) leave the rear alone and tighten the front in 5 in.Ib increments to 30 in.Ib.
    5) start shooting 10 shot groups starting with rear screw at 10 in.Ib. Add 5 in.Ib. every 10 shots. At some point the group will hopefully tighten and then start opening up. Go back to it's best group screw tension.
    I found RWS R50 likes 20 in.Ib. while RWS R100 preferred 25.
    Try with different brands until you have your Magic Wand.
    Alternatively a barrel tuner will help not to mention O-rings placed on the barrel at different intervals to calm vibration. No end to the fun one can have with smallbore!
    I regularly shoot the NRA 200 yd. target with standard velocity match ammo tuned as above. My two barrels (the original 1956 Win. and a 3-groove Benchmark) are very accurate but no more than anyone else's. On my good days I can clean the target without too much trouble. Watch the wind!
     
  8. steve123

    steve123

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    Over at SH I did a 6x5 at 100Y and got sub .9" at 100Y with Polar Biathlon that was tested at the Lapua facility for my Anny 1827F.

    It was calmish but I was shooting prone off a Harris bipod. It's hard to shoot such a lightweight rifle and there were a few flyers which seems unavoidable at 100Y???!!!

    At this point I'd say to go to another platform like the Vudoo and send the rifle off to have ammo tested in it, then buy a bunch of it.

    I got so tired of poor vertical while trying to shoot my 22rf at longer distances that I made up a reduced load for my 20-221FB AI. 32 grainers at 2300 fps has been the answer! .1-.2's at 50Y, .3-.4 at 100Y, and small vertical out to 300Y, sometimes one bigger splat on the 300Y steel if the wind is down. If I can see where I'm missing and the wind isn't bad the 400M turkey is fun. Our turkey is in the grass so it's really hard to see misses.
     
  9. velocette

    velocette Silver $$ Contributor

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    Linebaugh,
    You have receive a lot of very good advice and suggestion from shooters that actually know what they are doing with a .22rf. Read through the posts, learn from those that have (probably) made all the mistakes leading up their level of knowledge.
    I will close it out with a photo of a target fired by me in an NRA Smallbore Prone match in South Florida @ 100 yds.
    Rifle was an Annie, ammo was Lapua Center X on a fairly calm day. Good target but I still didn't win the match.
    Two of the rounds are at 1", all the rest are less.
     

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  10. Topstrap

    Topstrap

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    If ya wanna do well at my longrange rimfire matches you need to be consistent at 1" or better at 100 yards to finish well. Lots of my targets are quite a bit smaller than that and are being hit regularly in the match.

    I just picked up an old BSA Martini International, while doing research on them I read where the gun couldn't be released unless it would shoot 3 consecutive 10 shot groups an inch or under. That was long ago and shows what was expected accuracy wise.

    I've watched the shooters at my match improve and also the longrange rimfire competitions in general swell and become what everyone is doing now. Back when we were doing it most viewed it as lobbing rounds downrange and hope for a hit.

    Now consistent hits out to 500 yards and beyond are being done. I've told everyone that you wouldn't want to poke your head up at 400 yards if I had my 22, the newer scopes with more travel and better mechanics make it easy to dial from 25 yards to 500 yards with very precise repeatable clicks.

    Topstrap
     
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  11. jamesdmock

    jamesdmock Gold $$ Contributor

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    I don't know if this is real world or not, but I just viewed on YouTube a shooter who shot a 7/16ths inch group at 100 yards with a Volquartsen Scorpion PISTOL. It was convincing enough to make me want to get rid of my Model 41 Smith and get the Volquartsen. Maybe I will take 2 aspirins and forget what I saw. James
    DSCF9014.JPG DSCF0001 (4).JPG
     
  12. linebaugh

    linebaugh Silver $$ Contributor

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    Well it is the internet so everything is possible. Honestly there is probably no reason it could not be done but I would like to see it reproduced a few times to be sure it wasn't a wallet group, which it probably is.

    I was looking for real world experience from this forum as I find its members to be pretty darn honest and intelligent for the most part. I am getting really good feed back to gather the intel on deciding if I need to chase more accuracy and what to expect. Honestly it looks like I am pretty close to what i need now as i wont be shooting any paper diciplines nor trying to unseat current record holders.

    I went and shot my 4" gong last night at 100 yards positionally for practice. Lots of wind but most if not all my misses were due to me not building a steady platform given the position or because I was shooting offhand. Had some misses running lefty off of a bag over an impromptu barricade also. All my fault and I need to practice more.

    Thanks to all.that have contributed thus far.
     
  13. polebilly

    polebilly

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    I am loving this thread. When I shot prone conventional at 100 yd. I to was able to shoot some respectable groups. I think there is something to slinging in tight and making the gun work for you. That said, my bench abilities are questionable, but I have never been able to get SK Rifle match to shoot in any gun and I have several. Surprisingly SK Standard + always beats it. Yes RWS and old Black box beat it. But I still have a lot of old Eley Brown box that is amazing. 1" groups are still tough to come by.
     
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  14. jamesdmock

    jamesdmock Gold $$ Contributor

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    I watched the video again and noticed that the shooter stopped after 3 rounds and measured the group. Does that make the reported accuracy suspect? I think it does because we have all shot that fluke group that is unbelievable. I once shot a 3-shot group with my 52-C Winchester target rifle that was ~3/8ths inch AT 200 YARDS. It was a fluke.
     
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  15. bnice1

    bnice1

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    We shoot 200 yd Schuetzen bench and off hand, gun and Ammo are very important, center ring on the German Target is 1.5”. 5 mph breeze will move a 22 bullet 5-6”. So wind flags are a must. Biggest variable is the Ammo in my opinion. For links go to ASSRA American Single Shot Rifle Assoc. Or ISSA International Single Shot Assoc.
     
  16. Fotheringill

    Fotheringill

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    I have made all of mistakes at least once.
     

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