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Author Topic: 257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?  (Read 2526 times)

Offline FJIM

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257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
« on: 04:19 PM, 04/07/12 »
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  • It seems 257 Roberts brass is hard to come buy and 7x57 brass is also hard to come buy..
     does anyone know what case i can make 257 Roberts brass from..I think i can just neck up 6mm Remington cases and fire form them.  I can buy factory ammo and shoot it up for the cases. that seems to be a good way to get the brass i want..

    I don't anneal , never have.. I was considering getting a annealing machine because others have had great success with them and i was thinking if i shoot up some 257 brass and anneal it i would last me a long time..


    Offline bozo699

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #1 on: 04:25 PM, 04/07/12 »
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  • It seems 257 Roberts brass is hard to come buy and 7x57 brass is also hard to come buy..
     does anyone know what case i can make 257 Roberts brass from..I think i can just neck up 6mm Remington cases and fire form them.  I can buy factory ammo and shoot it up for the cases. that seems to be a good way to get the brass i want..

    I don't anneal , never have.. I was considering getting a annealing machine because others have had great success with them and i was thinking if i shoot up some 257 brass and anneal it i would last me a long time..

    You already have it figured out, the 6mm Rem will work, 7X57 also of course will work, I have not found it hard to get the .257 brass, best of luck to you.
    Wayne.
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder!!!
    Aim Small Miss Small.

    Offline FJIM

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #2 on: 04:32 PM, 04/07/12 »
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  • thanks wayne, i have surched the net for 257 or 7x57 and everyone is out of stock, seasonal they say and dont know when they will have it. on backorder every where i have checked..


    Offline bheadboy

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #3 on: 04:34 PM, 04/07/12 »
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  • midwayusa.com has 257 new brass.

    Bob

    Offline FJIM

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #4 on: 04:40 PM, 04/07/12 »
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  • no midway does not have any, on backorder no 257 roberts brass.
    but they do have lots of loaded ammo in stock..
    « Last Edit: 04:43 PM, 04/07/12 by FJIM »

    Offline bheadboy

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #5 on: 04:43 PM, 04/07/12 »
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  • Gander mountain from their web page


    Remington Brass Cartridge Case



    Key Features

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    Remington Brass Cartridge Case



    Key Features

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    Primer pocket tolerances held to .001"


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    Product Description
    The Remington cartridge case provides consistently exact internal volume and resistance to case stretching and brittleness. The case neck is fashioned with new, unprimed brass and the annealing process is closely monitored to assure easier re-sizing and longer reloading life. This is not loaded ammunition. Bulk brass should be full-length sized, trimmed, and chamfered before loading.


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    Offline fguffey

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #6 on: 10:48 AM, 04/08/12 »
  • Reply
  • http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/2010_SpecialOrder.pdf

    Page #9 #13865 is a forming die for forming 7mm57 from 30/06 for $40.00. Most of my 7mm57 Ackley Improved and 7mm57 cases have 30/06 head stamps, when going from 30/06 down to 25 caliber expect do-nuts when forming Ackely Improved cases.

    I use a 243 Winchester forming die first  when going from 7mm57 to 257 Roberts, it is a matter of adjusting the die off the shell holder .270” thousandths, in the perfect world .267 would work but when forming cases there is an advantage to forming cases that are long from the case head to the shoulder, for those that can keep up fire forming can be eliminated if  they know the length of the chamber, it is a matter of adjusting the die to the shell holder when final sizing, everyone else has to fire to form, I form first then fire.

    And forever there has been an old saying, military cases are thicker than commercial, new over the counter ammo, and?, that is not true, when forming 257 Roberts cases from 30/06 cases the advantage goes to the commercial case like the R-P Remington, the case head is .260”+ thick, the LC 30/06 case head is .200” thick, if the military case is heavier but has a thinner case head the case body must he heavier/thicker, and if the R-P case head is thicker but weighs less the case body must be and is thinner.

    It would help to know the diameter of  the neck on your fired cases, I use reamers when necessary to to get adequate clearance when necking cases down, again there is an advantage to cases that have thick and or thin case bodies, it is possible to reduce the neck expansion of the neck with a thicker case. 

    F. Guffey

    Offline bozo699

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    http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/2010_SpecialOrder.pdf

    Page #9 #13865 is a forming die for forming 7mm57 from 30/06 for $40.00. Most of my 7mm57 Ackley Improved and 7mm57 cases have 30/06 head stamps, when going from 30/06 down to 25 caliber expect do-nuts when forming Ackely Improved cases.

    I use a 243 Winchester forming die first  when going from 7mm57 to 257 Roberts, it is a matter of adjusting the die off the shell holder .270” thousandths, in the perfect world .267 would work but when forming cases there is an advantage to forming cases that are long from the case head to the shoulder, for those that can keep up fire forming can be eliminated if  they know the length of the chamber, it is a matter of adjusting the die to the shell holder when final sizing, everyone else has to fire to form, I form first then fire.

    And forever there has been an old saying, military cases are thicker than commercial, new over the counter ammo, and?, that is not true, when forming 257 Roberts cases from 30/06 cases the advantage goes to the commercial case like the R-P Remington, the case head is .260”+ thick, the LC 30/06 case head is .200” thick, if the military case is heavier but has a thinner case head the case body must he heavier/thicker, and if the R-P case head is thicker but weighs less the case body must be and is thinner.

    It would help to know the diameter of  the neck on your fired cases, I use reamers when necessary to to get adequate clearance when necking cases down, again there is an advantage to cases that have thick and or thin case bodies, it is possible to reduce the neck expansion of the neck with a thicker case. 

    F. Guffey

    F.Guffey,
    When I started reading your post I thought for a minute you had wrote your first legible post that wasn't going to go into forming first then firing??.....but I was wrong and as per usual you have again totally amazed me!! Let's get this straight once and for all,...YOU CAN'T FORM A CASE FROM ONE CARTRIDGE TO ANOTHER WITH A SIZING OR FORMING DIE TO PERFECT CHAMBER DIMENSIONS,....... PERIOD THE END!!! You can maybe make it close but,..
    IT IS NOT TO CHAMBER DIMENSIONS!! YOU HAVE TO FIRE IT IN THE CHAMBER FIRST!! THEN AND ONLY THEN IS IT FIRE FORMED!!!  Please try to get that understood and quit spewing false information all over the WWW! Even if you had a hydrolic forming die cut with the chamber reamer it wouldn't be a perfect chamber fit when done forming!! Too get a PERFECT fire formed case to exact chamber dimensions you would have to fire it in the chamber several times, at least two or three anyway! Now one more time!....There are forming dies,...BUT the cases are NOT totally formed,...ie,..Fire Formed until they have been shot usually with a full house load several times in YOUR  chamber!! even fired one time in your chamber there closer to being formed then when they emerge from a forming die!!!
    Wayne.
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder!!!
    Aim Small Miss Small.

    Offline fguffey

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #8 on: 10:47 AM, 04/10/12 »
  • Reply
  • “F.Guffey,

    When I started reading your post I thought for a minute you had wrote your first legible post that wasn't going to go into forming first then firing??.....

    I believe there are a few members on this forum that are dumb enough to believe that, I do not believe you can be fair and or objective, since Ed kicked you in all 6 knees you have taken on the nature of an Alabama Leg Dog, or maybe that is the reason he kicked you in all 6 knees.

    This is a bench rest forum, again, I am not a bench rest shooter, I do not have problems with do-nuts, nobody on this forum knows what causes them, then there is the “widely indignant about everything element’ that will not allow the topic to be discussed.

    Again, I have formed 22/6MM Ackley cases using 25/06 cases, the smith building the rifles had 55%+ case head separation/failures, he was very proud of the 45% that did not fail, like you he did not understand the methods and or techniques, he was/is a fire former, chamber a round, pull the trigger and eject a case that is fire formed, he cut the chambers???? When I cut a chamber I know the length of the chamber, I know how far I have to go to finish the chamber, I know the length of the chamber from the face of the bolt to the shoulder/datum. It is possible you are not capable of keeping up, not a problem, I cut the chamber, I form cases to fit, when I fire a case in a chamber I cut there is .000 head space, there is no excuse for someone calling themselves a bench ‘rester’  not to know how to operate a press with dies and shell holder.

    I accept your thinking, you can not correlate the sizing process and it’s effect sizing has on the chamber when  it comes to offsetting head space, I choose to eliminate the effect the chamber has on the case when fired by forming first. and I am the fan of time is a factor, we can not get into that, seems anything new and or things you do not understand ‘locks you up’ and causes you to display a behavior that leads me to believe you are socially dysfunctional.

    “It seems 257 Roberts brass is hard to come buy and 7x57 brass is also hard to come buy..
    does anyone know what case i can make 257 Roberts brass from..I think i can just neck up 6mm Remington cases and fire form them. I can buy factory ammo and shoot it up for the cases. that seems to be a good way to get the brass i want..

    Bozo699 Wayne, the question is about 7mm57 and 257 Roberts, 257 Roberts cases cost me .08 cents each plus my time and investment, I would like to see you make a contribution, the OP ask a question, can you help him? Is this about you? Is this forum about helping?

    If I had one forming die die it would be a 308 Winchester, if I had only 2 the other one would be a 243 Winchester, this is THE bench rest forum? I do not wakeup every morning and start over, methods and techniques are accumulative.

    And, again, I make annealing equipment, I do not sell annealing equipment, but there is risk in discussing something new and or something Bozo699 does not understand, I run the risk of locking him up again, my opinion, he has a strange way of demanding attention.

    F. Guffey   
    « Last Edit: 10:50 AM, 04/10/12 by fguffey »

    Offline bigedp51

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #9 on: 11:35 AM, 04/10/12 »
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  • Quote
    fguffey

    "seems anything new and or things you do not understand ‘locks you up’ and causes you to display a behavior that leads me to believe you are socially dysfunctional."

    This is your buddy Ed the knee kicker and I want you to know I like bozo699 and his informative posts, the only thing we disagree on is greasing cases and which one of us is the funnest.  ::)

    NOTE: And I've kicked fguffey at least a 1000 times in the knees and head and haven't gotten through to him.  :o

    Now lets get down to who is socially dysfunctional:

    1. If you buy a rifle and its headspace is set at .002 over minimum headspace.

    2. And then you buy new brass only to find its .009 smaller than minimum headspace.

    3. You have to fire form these cases to make them fit the chamber because they are .11 too short for the chamber.

    4. It pains me greatly fguffey to find out the state mental hospitals are giving computer time to the inmates who think they know how to reload.

    In closing again I like bozo699 and his informative posts, BUT your postings fguffey read like War and Peace and you should try and keep them under 10,000 words or less. Again fguffey you have brown eyes and you spend your entire posting patting yourself on the back talking about utter garbage.

    Go back to the High Road Forum fguffey, at least the inexperienced readers "MIGHT" believe your insane ramblings.


    Why would they invent words to describe a problem if it didn't exist.

    HEAD CLEARANCE
    The distance between the head of a fully seated cartridge or shell and the face of the breech bolt when the action is in the closed position. Commonly confused with headspace.

    http://www.saami.org/glossary/display.cfm?letter=H



    « Last Edit: 11:48 AM, 04/10/12 by bigedp51 »

    Offline bigedp51

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #10 on: 12:16 PM, 04/10/12 »
  • Reply
  • Over 15 years collecting the British Enfield rifle and fguffey tells us he forms first and then fires.  :o

    New unfired Remington case in a Wilson Case Gauge.



    Fired case in a Wilson Case Gauge and this Enfield is well within headspace standards.



    Now fix this with your "MAGIC" feeler gauges fguffey.
    (quick before I kick you in the knee ................. "again")

    In the real world fguffey you never know what you are going to run into, no two rifles are exactly the same and no two cartridges are exactly the same.

    The shoulder of the case in the top photo is .002 shorter than minimum headspace. The bottom photo is called lack of quality control and the shoulder is a 1/4 inch too short or under SAAMI standards.



    You have brown eyes fguffey, and spellchecker keeps trying to change your name to fluffy...............................here fluffy......here fluffy.  :o

    Offline FJIM

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #11 on: 02:11 PM, 04/10/12 »
  • Reply
  • Guy's how does any of that mum bo jumbo. help a guy make 257 roberts brass..   I dont use remington brass for nothing.. primers fall out after one fireing..   it seems kind of obvious i can run a win 6mm rem case through a 257 roberts full lenght die and then fire form it in my chamber, i would check my necks to see how thick and what kind of clearance i have... I dont have this rifle yet , may have it next week..I may not have it shooting for a few months.   If i could make 7x57 brass from lapua 30-06 cases then ito 257 rob cases that would be a good way to go..I have used lapua 30-06 for 25-06AI and 270 win cases.. but i know that neck turning will be required, neck turning is not a problem i own 3 turners and have 22/24/25/27 mandrel's. but the cases would be so thick may require inside reaming and that turns me off..

    Offline bozo699

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #12 on: 02:23 PM, 04/10/12 »
  • Reply
  • F.Guffey,
    I think we have finally made some headway you and I. This is the first time I have out of the many times I have questioned your brown eyed babble that you have responded with a protective argument. There aren't many cases with a .473 bolt face you can't make from a 3006 case,.....but who want's too??....this isn't the 1950's where there is a lot of concepts and very few mother cases to choose from to make your concept from, sooooo.....the 3006 was the go to case for most concepts, could I make my 6brx cases from 3006 brass?...YES but why would I want to, I can buy 6br Lapua brass and FIRE FORM the .100 needed to have what I want. As you mentioned this is a bench rest forum,..well not really it is a Accurate shooting forum, Benchrest central is a bench rest forum but you were close. Your one weird dude Guffey but we all need a little laugh now and again for some stress relief so keep it up, I have been getting a couple BR rifles ready for a up coming 1K competition  so a laugh is needed right about now ;D


    Bigedp51,
    Your a lurker my friend,....your almost never out there but when your needed you magically appear :)

    Picture 1,3,and 4 could benefit from greasing ;D if you need some instruction on that let me know ;) ,.......Thanks
    Wayne.

    FJIM,
    I have never found the need to make .257 brass as I have always been able to acquire it when I needed it, I have reformed it from 6mm REM brass so I know that is definitely doable, if you want I can run down to the loading room and see if I can lube up a 3006 brass and run it through a 7X57 die and then into a .257 die and see what it looks like and if it will chamber in a .257, also I could measure brass thickness before and after, it's up to you.
    Sorry for side stepping your thread, F.Guffey can make the worst come out in anybody. Best of luck in your quest.
    Wayne.
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder!!!
    Aim Small Miss Small.

    Offline bigedp51

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #13 on: 02:57 PM, 04/10/12 »
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    bozo699

    Bigedp51,
    Your a lurker my friend,....your almost never out there but when your needed you magically appear


    Thats because I saw all your TV shows when I was a kid and I feel a special bonding between us.   ???



    Don't tell anyone but I do a lot of reading here and try and absorb the wealth of information. Besides your living proof that some case greasers are still alive and doing well in spite of all their errors.  :o

    Oh well, reloading makes for strange bedfellows................
    (fguffey on the far right)

    « Last Edit: 04:02 PM, 04/10/12 by bigedp51 »

    Offline FJIM

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    257 Roberts Brass And anealing machines ?
    « Reply #14 on: 03:45 PM, 04/10/12 »
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  • Yea Wayne let me know how hard it is to make a 257 rob from a 30-06 cases and how thick the shoulder and neck are.. because i know for sure if you could make a good case from 30-06 lapua cases with out too much trouble they would last for a long time with no loose primers....i shot them in a 25-06AI and in my 270 win with hot loads and never a loose primer and cases lasted longer than anything else..but i had to turn the necks for they were very thick..I really think the shoulders and neck would be very thick..but hey if you want to i would be interested in the out come. i just don't want to spend 100 bucks on cases. 40 bucks for a die. then need a set up for inside cases reaming then turn necks.. I will just buy some factory loads, shoot em up at some G-hogs, and use the cases to develop some loads.. I have been interested in a case neck annealer since i first seen them, but wondered if was really needed.. but i have seen the results from other shooters that i think i have one on my want list..I just sent terry Leonard a check for my stock,may have it next week...plus i just spent 1,600.00 on this rifle..hey i ain't made out of money.lol..


     

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