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Author Topic: Best Powder Measure for Varget (Limited Choices)  (Read 7859 times)

Offline amlevin

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I'm interested in other's experience in powder measures that accurately dispense Varget.  I'd like to limit my choices to those that are more "mainline measures" such as those offered by RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, and Lee.  I'm looking for a dispenser in one of those four brands that can be mounted on a progressive press and even be operated manually if necessary.

Which of these offerings do a better job with Varget, keeping charges dropped to a +/- .1 gr range?
« Last Edit: 10:30 AM, 12/29/11 by amlevin »


Offline bozo699

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Best Powder Measure for Varget (Limited Choices)
« Reply #1 on: 10:34 AM, 12/29/11 »
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  • I'm interested in other's experience in powder measures that accurately dispense Varget.  I'd like to limit my choices to those that are more "mainline measures" such as those offered by RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, and Lee.  I'm looking for a dispenser in one of those four brands that can be mounted on a progressive press and even be operated manually if necessary.

    Which of these offerings do a better job with Varget, keeping charges dropped to a +/- .1 gr range?
    Probably none of them will throw stick powder that close but IMHO the Lyman 55 is by far the best with the choices listed.
    Wayne.
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder!!!
    Aim Small Miss Small.

    Offline Otter

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    « Reply #2 on: 10:43 AM, 12/29/11 »
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  • The RCBS I have won't even come close.  It will throw fairly consistent charges with Varget and then out of the blue throw a really heavy, and on less occassions a light charge.  I know my technique isn't perfect, but it isn't off enough to screw them up that bad.  Varget tends to meter poorly, at least out of my measure.  Smaller powders like Benchmark and H322 do much better, and ball powders like H335 meter really good.


    Offline RJinTexas

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    « Reply #3 on: 11:24 AM, 12/29/11 »
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  • amlevin, First off your dreaming if you think that your going to be able to consistently throw +/- .01 gr. powder charges on any progressive press with Varget. If your wanting anywhere near consistent powder charges take Otter advise and use a ball powder. I've found that 99% of the time I could  achieve +/- .02 gr. charges using ball powder. I have reloaded for both 223 Rem & 308 Win on a Dillion 550-B using a Dillon powder dispenser and ball powder with expectable results for shooting varmints. But I would never try and load competitive loads for competition shooting such as VFS on a progressive press using a powder dispenser. I have a Redding BR3 that actually will throw more consistent charges with Varget then my Harrell but I've never used it mounted on a press.

    Regards
    RJ
    « Last Edit: 11:37 AM, 12/29/11 by RJinTexas »
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    Offline 260Ravage

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    « Reply #4 on: 01:22 PM, 12/29/11 »
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  • I found the LEE measure to be the most consistant using mostly RE15 and varget. The Lee is very easy to set for a specific amount of grains.

    Offline Laurie

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    « Reply #5 on: 01:59 PM, 12/29/11 »
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  • RJ is spot on in his comments. Here are the results of a six measure test I did a year ago and which was published in Target Shooter Online magazine:

     Table 2

    Six-Measure, Four-Powder Test Results
    Measure   Weights   H. VarGet   Viht N140   Hybrid100V   IMR-4064

    Lee Perfect   Average   51.9gn      51.61gn   52.12gn   49.09gn   
          S.D.      0.16gn      0.13gn      0.12gn      0.19gn   
    Low      51.52gn   51.42gn   51.84gn   48.76gn
          High      52.24gn   51.98gn   52.36gn   49.42gn
          ES      0.72gn      0.56gn      0.52gn      0.66gn
          Avge ±0.2gn*   5      1      3      6


    RCBS Uniflow   Average   51.46gn   51.13gn   51.93gn   49.65gn   
          S.D.      0.1gn      0.13gn      0.23gn      0.29gn   
    Low      51.26gn   50.84gn   51.26gn   48.94gn
          High      51.66gn   51.5gn      52.64gn   50.2gn
          ES      0.4gn      0.66gn      1.38gn      1.26gn
          Avge ±0.2gn*   Nil      2      6      14


    Forster BR   Average   52.12gn   51.85gn   52.58gn   49.71gn   
          S.D.      0.15gn      0.13gn      0.2gn      0.17gn   
    Low      51.86gn   51.64gn   52.26gn   49.34gn
          High      52.38gn   52.24gn   53.4gn      49.96gn
          ES      0.52gn      0.6gn      1.14gn      0.62gn
          Avge ±0.2gn*   3      2      2      4



    Hornady BR   Average   51.64gn   51.43gn   52.17gn   49.56gn   
          S.D.      0.13gn      0.12gn      0.11gn      0.21gn   
    Low      51.38gn   51.2gn      52.0gn      49.0gn
          High      51.86gn   51.7gn      52.38gn   49.94gn
          ES      0.48gn      0.5gn      0.38gn      0.94gn
          Avge ±0.2gn*   3      5      Nil      7


    Redding BR-30   Average   51.43gn   51.47gn   52.0gn      49.5gn   
          S.D.      0.1gn      0.19gn      0.25gn      0.22gn   
    Low      51.2gn      50.96gn   51.22gn   49.16gn
          High      51.64gn   51.82gn   52.38gn   50.02gn
          ES      0.44gn      0.86gn      1.16gn      0.86gn
          Avge ±0.2gn*   1      5      7      6


    Harrell      Average   51.94gn   51.78gn   52.18gn   49.31gn   
          S.D.      0.18gn      0.17gn      0.12gn      0.23gn   
    Low      51.54gn   51.38gn   51.98gn   48.92gn
          High      52.28gn   52.1gn      52.52gn   49.82gn
          ES      0.74gn      0.72gn      0.54gn      0.9gn
          Avge ±0.2gn*   6      3      2      9

    * number of instances where charges exceeded the average thrown charge weight by ± 0.2gn

    The test consisted of 10 charges thrown but not measured, followed by 25 thrown and weighed on Acculab VICON 123 laboratory quality scales that are accurate to plus or minus 0.02gn. The measure bodies were tapped twice  with a wooden kitchen spoon before each throw.

    As the nominal charge weight thrown was 50gn or close, the test was unfair to my Harrerll's Premium measure and the Redding BR-30 as they're optimised for 30gn charges, so a second test using 30gn Viht N133 was run for this pair with results as follows:

           Table 3
    Other Tests
    1.   ‘Benchrest Measures’ and Vihtavuori N133

    Harrell’s Prem BR   Redding  BR-30      
    Average      29.14gn      29.02gn   
    S.D.         0.14gn         0.13gn
    Low         28.88gn      28.8gn
    High         29.38gn      29.34gn
    ES         0.5gn         0.54gn
    Average ±0.15gn*   7         3
    * number of instances where charges exceeded the average thrown charge weight by ± 0.15gn – note smaller value used here.


    Put simply, you can't use charges of stick powders off any measure 'as thrown' except for short-range work. 100/200yd Bench Rest competitors are OK because 6PPC copes fine with fairly large charge variations grouping-wise and the range is short. But even here, many shooters start with expensive measures then spend yet more money in having them 'tuned' by people like Neil Jones.   



    Offline Redhighpower

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    « Reply #6 on: 02:41 PM, 12/29/11 »
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  • Most of the mid and long range shooters I know encluding myself, throw a charge and use a powder trickler to get the proper weight. That is true with all stick powers especially if you are trying to contol the weight within +/- 0.01 grains. I don't know of anyone who uses a progressive press to load long range ammo.  I use a Lyman 55 powder and Redding  powder measure and weigh each charge. They both are about the same. The lyman has a built in knocker which helps.  Larry

    Offline bozo699

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    « Reply #7 on: 07:32 PM, 12/29/11 »
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  • Laurie,
    I was throwing 28.5 grains of N133 or as close to that as I could get with my Harrell's BR powder dispenser, I think it was 52.3 clicks I found it not to be to consistent, what is your exact process for repeatable results, thanks in advance for your thoughts.
    Wayne.
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder!!!
    Aim Small Miss Small.

    Offline CJ6

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    « Reply #8 on: 10:01 AM, 12/30/11 »
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  • Try the OLD SCHOOL Lee scoops and trickle. Cheap/Fast/Effective.. I have Lyman #55, Redding  BR, And RCBS Uniflow. With just a bit of practice it's (Lee scoops) as fast/accurate as a regular drop measure without the crunching of the kernels.
    Roger T

    Offline tome

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    « Reply #9 on: 10:15 AM, 12/30/11 »
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  • +1 on what cJ6 said..have a Lyman 55..CBS uniflow and a rcbs powder master. of the 3 the powder master works the best w/ varget..but the lee measures and trickle up is far easier than setting up the #55 or the uniflow

    Offline FroggyOne2

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    « Reply #10 on: 10:18 AM, 12/30/11 »
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  • Yes you can throw an accurate charge of Varget on your progressive press!




    Here is how you do it.


    First, as you rasie the ram on your progressive press, you will take a weighed charged from your electronic scale (XXX-123, TP-153, GD-503) and once removed from the measuring plate of said scale and while holding it in your hand kinda lightly throw the charge into the powder funnel that you have at the top of the charging station on your progressive press, as you lean the point of the pan that has the weighed charge in it, you will be throwing the charge into the case that is awaiting the powder that you currently have in the powder charging die on your progressive press.. So yes, you can throw an accurate charge on your proggressive press.. now go throw away!

    Offline Taildrag15X

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    « Reply #11 on: 12:45 PM, 12/30/11 »
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  • Yes you can throw an accurate charge of Varget on your progressive press!




    Here is how you do it.


    First, as you rasie the ram on your progressive press, you will take a weighed charged from your electronic scale (XXX-123, TP-153, GD-503) and once removed from the measuring plate of said scale and while holding it in your hand kinda lightly throw the charge into the powder funnel that you have at the top of the charging station on your progressive press, as you lean the point of the pan that has the weighed charge in it, you will be throwing the charge into the case that is awaiting the powder that you currently have in the powder charging die on your progressive press.. So yes, you can throw an accurate charge on your proggressive press.. now go throw away!


    Ohh so true......when I here about guys bragging about using their Dillon to load match ammo this is exactly what I picture.

    Mike

    F-Class High Master

    Offline Laurie

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    « Reply #12 on: 02:44 PM, 12/30/11 »
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  • Laurie,
    I was throwing 28.5 grains of N133 or as close to that as I could get with my Harrell's BR powder dispenser, I think it was 52.3 clicks I found it not to be to consistent, what is your exact process for repeatable results, thanks in advance for your thoughts.
    Wayne.

    Wayne,

    I didn't think a 0.5gn spread on 25 charges was exactly great! Assuming the measure design is basically sound, my only suggestions for what they're worth is to mount the measure on a solid stand (I use the Sinclair), 'knock' the body which my experiments showed does help a lot, and to operate the handle fairly slowly and smoothly. If the rotor cuts a kernel keep on applying steady pressure until it cuts through. If that causes a big jerk, then ditch that charge.

    Alternatively, get a really good electronic dispenser / scales machine (for home use anyway). I'm steeling myself to impoverish myself a bit further with an RCBS Charge Master Combo. For BR, I much prefer to pre-weigh charges and take them to the range in stoppered glass vials. But .... we don't have to correct our charge weights here for big temperature variations. (Diggle Ranges are cold in winter and not much warmer in summer!)

    Going back to the OP's question, I have a soft spot for the Hornady Bench Rest measure that uses a smaller dia. measuring thimble than the basic L-N-L model. I threw thousands of charges (to be weighed and adjusted) with mine before I got the Harrell's. I don't think the Harrell is any more accurate, but it is smoother which helps a lot, and the adjuster drum click settings where one click = roughly 0.1gn of stick powder is a godsend for all the load development I do, plus the ability to return to a known setting. (My reloading room walls are covered with Post-It notes that say 45.4gn Viht N165 = xx.x Harrell's drum setting and similar.)

    I load 4,000-5,000 rifle cartridges each year and every charge is weighed, so life seems top consist of throwing and weighing charges at times!


    Offline bozo699

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    « Reply #13 on: 02:51 PM, 12/30/11 »
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  • Laurie,
    I was throwing 28.5 grains of N133 or as close to that as I could get with my Harrell's BR powder dispenser, I think it was 52.3 clicks I found it not to be to consistent, what is your exact process for repeatable results, thanks in advance for your thoughts.
    Wayne.

    Wayne,

    I didn't think a 0.5gn spread on 25 charges was exactly great! Assuming the measure design is basically sound, my only suggestions for what they're worth is to mount the measure on a solid stand (I use the Sinclair), 'knock' the body which my experiments showed does help a lot, and to operate the handle fairly slowly and smoothly. If the rotor cuts a kernel keep on applying steady pressure until it cuts through. If that causes a big jerk, then ditch that charge.

    Alternatively, get a really good electronic dispenser / scales machine (for home use anyway). I'm steeling myself to impoverish myself a bit further with an RCBS Charge Master Combo. For BR, I much prefer to pre-weigh charges and take them to the range in stoppered glass vials. But .... we don't have to correct our charge weights here for big temperature variations. (Diggle Ranges are cold in winter and not much warmer in summer!)

    Going back to the OP's question, I have a soft spot for the Hornady Bench Rest measure that uses a smaller dia. measuring thimble than the basic L-N-L model. I threw thousands of charges (to be weighed and adjusted) with mine before I got the Harrell's. I don't think the Harrell is any more accurate, but it is smoother which helps a lot, and the adjuster drum click settings where one click = roughly 0.1gn of stick powder is a godsend for all the load development I do, plus the ability to return to a known setting. (My reloading room walls are covered with Post-It notes that say 45.4gn Viht N165 = xx.x Harrell's drum setting and similar.)

    I load 4,000-5,000 rifle cartridges each year and every charge is weighed, so life seems top consist of throwing and weighing charges at times!
    Laurie,
    Thank you, I value and appreciate your thoughts, I load about the same amount a year as you do and I have been weighing all of them but I am trying my hand at short range br and thought I would try throwing like the big dogs do but it doesn't seem to be consistent for me, I will mount it better and practice some more, thanks again.
    Wayne.
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder!!!
    Aim Small Miss Small.

    Offline justinp61

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    « Reply #14 on: 03:06 PM, 12/30/11 »
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  • I'm not a long range shooter by any means, but as others have stated I use a RCBS measure and trickle to the weight I'm looking for. I weighed several charges from my RCBS and it was all over the place so I set it light andtrickle the charges of Varget for my 22-250.


     

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