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Author Topic: 6.5-284 Questions and challanges  (Read 5269 times)

Offline Monolithicman

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6.5-284 Questions and challanges
« on: 02:43 PM, 10/19/11 »
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  • I just got a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter chamberd in 6.5-284 Norma (26" barrel).  Made up some basic loads and broke in the barrel.  Mounted the scope and started Load developmant.  I checked my manuals and articles here and other places for load data.  I was going to use H4831SC, but I noticed all the loads I found for that powder left about 10g of free space at the top of the case.  My understanding (I may be wrong here) is if you reasch peak preasures before you fill the case you are using a powder that is too fast.  So I started with IMR 7828SSC thinking it is slower than H4831SC. 

    Using once fired Lapua brass and CCI BR2 primer 130g Norma Diamond Line bullet.  COL 3.085 so the bottom of the shank of the bullet is right at the bottom of the case neck.

    Tried 53g,54,g 55g, 58g, of IMR 7828SSC 55g produced 2930 fps 58g got 3060 fps but it was hard to open the bolt and hard to rechamber the fired case, no other pressure signs.  No bad, but I get 2900 fps with the 130g Norma bullet in my 260 Rem with very reasonable (58,000 psi) pressure.  I would like to see at least 3100 fps from the 6.5-284.

    So I tried 3 other powders, Reloader 17, H1000, Superformance.

    Reloader 17  50.5g got 2950 fps  this load was suggested by another member a giving 3200 fps.. 
    H1000 56g  gave 2736  57g gave 2807
    Superformance  55g 3050 but had more recoil and difficult blot lift, so probably over pressure.

    The case has room for about 60g of any of these powders.  I don't see any of these powders as being ideal, why too many loads that are no faster than a 260 rem, I like to hope the extra case capacity would offer more velocity?

    Any suggestions on where I might look for the right powder?

    Anybody know why so many popular loads don't fill the 6.5-284 case?

    Please don't reply with "I use (x) load and it works fine for me".

    Thanks, and good shooting




    Online Erik Cortina

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #1 on: 04:31 PM, 10/19/11 »
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  • Try N560
    Member - Lapua Team USA
    At some point, the shooter becomes the limiting factor in accuracy!

    Offline watercam

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #2 on: 10:13 PM, 10/19/11 »
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  • Bear in mind that many of the higher velocity loads you come across will be from 30" barrels. In other words, you would be losing roughly 100 fps with your 26" barrel. Not a problem, let us know how N560 works for you. You will never have a load that is 'wind free'...
    watercam


    Offline Monolithicman

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #3 on: 01:04 AM, 10/20/11 »
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  • I would love to try N560 unfortunately I don't have any.  I will call around and see if any gun store near me has any.

    In my original post I was not totally clear, when I compare these 6.5-284 loads to 260 Rem velocities I am strictly comparing to my GA Precision 260 Rem with a 24" ABS barrel.  Only comparing to my 6.5-284 loads, not the velocities posted by others.

    So far I have not been able to get over 3000 fps with the 6.5-284 and a 130g bullet with out pressure signs, so a little puzzled why since logically the bigger case should be able to produce a higher velocity, I was hopping to beat my 260 Rem by 200 fps, is that too much to ask?  Should not be to bad particularly with 2" extra barrel.

    Thanks! 

    Offline alf

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #4 on: 06:30 AM, 10/20/11 »
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  • Your thoughts and basis for ignoring H-4831 SC is unfounded.

    Offline squirrelduster

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #5 on: 12:16 AM, 10/23/11 »
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  • I agree with Alf. My 6.5x284 is scary accurate with h4831sc. If you do some research you will find many records have been set with that powder. Is it a hunting load or only for punching paper?
    If it is a hunting rifle you may want to try the Berger 140 or the Sierra. Either way the groups should be very good.


    Offline expiper

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #6 on: 12:23 AM, 10/23/11 »
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  • your bbl is "short" and "rough"...both things cost in MV....a cut custom bbl is usually faster vs a button "factory" bbl......there is a reason that people build these "custom" rifles...Roger
    Broken Down Plumber..Still throwin LEAD
    Confucius Says "dimmest ink is brighter than the brightest memory"

    Offline 6BRonwheels

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #7 on: 08:39 AM, 10/23/11 »
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  • I am using the Savage LRH in this caliber.  The powder I have been using Hodgdon Hybrid 100V.  I have only shot 123 grain Amax bullets in this rifle.  My MV is 3100 and no presure signs, and accuracy is good for a hunting rifle.

    Offline dennisinaz

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #8 on: 03:24 PM, 10/23/11 »
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  • Tried 53g,54,g 55g, 58g, of IMR 7828SSC 55g produced 2930 fps 58g got 3060 fps but it was hard to open the bolt and hard to rechamber the fired case, no other pressure signs.  No bad, but I get 2900 fps with the 130g Norma bullet in my 260 Rem with very reasonable (58,000 psi) pressure.  I would like to see at least 3100 fps from the 6.5-284.

    So I tried 3 other powders, Reloader 17, H1000, Superformance.



    This, I find very hard to believe unless you have a 36" barrel. Having put hundreds of 130 Normas through a 260, I could never get any where near that velocity- especially at 58,000  PSI. Do you have pressure testing capabiltities??  Generally, when you get excessive velocities, it is a great pressure. If you have a tight chamber and  a tight action, the typical pressure signs don't show up as early.

    I get 3160 out of a 6.5-284 with a 24 1/2" barrel using R17. I could get close to that with Mag Pro. You will never  get it with 4831 or 7828. The only other powder that i have found that can get these good velocities with a short barrel is Magnum.

    Offline Monolithicman

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    « Reply #9 on: 05:30 AM, 10/24/11 »
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  • dennisinaz, Yes I have a pressure testing setup.  I have tested Black Hills 139g Lapua loads for 260 Rem as refrance and my 130g Norma loads run about 1000 psi below the Black Hills in the same conditions.  If you can't get there maybe try Hybrid 100V, that's what I use.  This not a light load but I have hundreds down the tube with consistent sub 0.25 inch groups at 100 yards. 

    I tried your load for Reloader 17, 50.5g, you said you got 3200 fps, I got 2950 fps.  So I don't know what is going on.

    Maybe when I get a pressure barrel for 6.5-284 I can shed some more light on this puzzle, till then I'm trying Ramshot Magnum today. 

    Wish me luck, hahaha

    Thanks, good shooting.
    « Last Edit: 05:48 AM, 10/24/11 by Monolithicman »

    Offline dennisinaz

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    « Reply #10 on: 09:37 AM, 10/24/11 »
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  • I just checked my data. With the Moly 130 Diamonds, I get about 3160 with 50.5 grains R17.  I have been able to push 108s to over 3450 but not with great accuracy. Never found a load for the 123s.  Both of my 6.5-284 barrels were similar in velocity. One is a Mark Chanlyn barrel ( 8.5 twist) the current one is a Shilen ratchet rifling (8 twist). I wanted 3200 but can't quite get there. I am done fooling around. 

    I have been carrying my 6.5 on a coues whitetail hunt all week. Heading back out to finish up this morning. I am anxious to see what this 130 does on that deer. Haven't shot anything bigger than a coyote with them up to this point.

    Offline Monolithicman

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    « Reply #11 on: 01:09 AM, 10/25/11 »
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  • Well I don't know I think my 6.5-284 is broken.  even 62g of ramshot magnum only got me 3000 fps.   Thats a totally full case so... hmmm guess I'll try other powders

    dennisinaz, you don't mention how long your barrels are?  There should be a forum rule, no velocity posting with out barrel length :)

    Thanks for the help.

    Offline Lucky

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    6.5-284 Questions and challanges
    « Reply #12 on: 09:43 PM, 10/25/11 »
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  • Hey Monolithicman , i feel your pain. Suffering the same probs with my new 260 AI. Cant seem to achieve  much more than 2850 fps without starting to get heavy bolt lift & brass flow into plunger bore. Have tried 4831SC & V V165. Initially i thought maybe not enough jump for the 140 gr bullet but increasing  it didnt seem to help much. dont have any other comparable guns to personally compare to, only others reported results. Any way what i really wanted to relate is that in my testing i have found that my chrony will give considerably slower readings when the sun is low than when directly overhead. My experience is pretty limited so maybe that's common knowledge but maybe you're actually getting more than you think. also i understand that some barrels are (tighter) than others & develop higher pressures. I believe this could be true in my case based on the fact that the standard pilot bushing supplied with my PT&G throat reamer would not fit in my bore. My rifle is also a savage from their custom shop, 28" 260 Rem barrel on the LH model 10 that i re-chambered to 260AI. maybe its a savage thing. Anyway, keep us posted. Maybe you'll solve my issues too. ;D

    Offline bozo699

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    « Reply #13 on: 11:02 PM, 10/25/11 »
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  • Monolithicman,
    I have a factory #12 savage in 6.5*284, it has a 30" tube on it, I load 52.5 H 4831 behind a 139 scenars and I am getting just over 3000 fps, now with 200 or so rounds through her she has sped up about another 80fps, you may find yours speeds up a little after she gets broke in a little more.
    Wayne.
    Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder!!!
    Aim Small Miss Small.

    Offline Monolithicman

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    « Reply #14 on: 11:50 AM, 10/26/11 »
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  • Lucky, Bozo699 thanks for the ideas!

    My chronograph is a CED M2 with Infrared skyscreens, and i shoot in a tunnel.  I've tested the chrono in the dark and it works great.  I use .22 LR to check my chrono each time I set it up to make sure it still reads the .22 LR at the same velocity range it normally does (still have 8000 rounds of bulk federal .22 LR, yaaah walmart!) so I have same lot calibration ammo for a while.

    2850 from a 260 AI 28" does seem a little slow to me.  My 24" 260 rem can only do 2750 with 139-140g bullets, I tried Lapua, Nosler custom, and Berger.  So if you get roughly 25 fps per inch of barrel and we hope 100 fps for the AI, 200fps over my speeds you would think.  Have you checked you AI cases for water capacity?  Would be fun to see how much you gained from the AI.  Weigh a new 260 case full of water, then fire form it, and see how much more water you can fit.  My 260 cases hold about 55g of water if my memory is correct.

    Bozo699, is 3000 fps out of a 30" 6.5-284 a light load?  Maybe my whole pretext is wrong, I started out thinking I should be able to gain 200 FPS from the 6.5-284 over what my 260 rem will do, but the 260 Rem is a more efficient case, maybe we are just seeing the fall off in performance of over bore cartridges, and 100 fps is all we can hope to gain from the 260 rem speeds.  If so thats kind of disappointing but may be reality.

    I will look for a speed increase as the barrel gets more rounds down it, that's good to know!

    Thanks, and good shooting.


     

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