Powder Valley Sinclair Int'l Midsouth Shooters Bruno Shooters' Supply Bullets.com Shooting Supplies Lapua Products at Grafs.com Click to Donate to Site
By Clicking HERE to Shop at Amazon.com You Can Help Support the Forum.

Author Topic: Getting Rid of the Vertical  (Read 1167 times)

Offline Hondo64d

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Getting Rid of the Vertical
« on: 09:10 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • I'm thinking if I can tune the vertical out of this load, it will do everything I could possibly ask of it. I'm probably going to start with systematic seating depth adjustments. Is that the right approach for getting rid of vertical stringing?

    Thanks,

    John



    Offline cmillard

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+14)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1181
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #1 on: 09:22 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • i found that my vertical and shot to shot consistency went away when i started jamming the bullets into the rifling on my 6BR with 105 bergers.  i would give that a try, also switching from br-4s to wolf small rifle mags helped
    Cole Millard 1155

    Offline Bill K

    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Basic Member
    • *
    • Posts: 1
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #2 on: 09:29 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  •  I would start by putting a small amount of pressure near the forearm/barrel of your rifle i.e. a small piece of cardboard/felt, and see if that slight pressure does not settle your barrel down and stop the vertical rise. Or if you already have a pressure point there, remove it and let your barrel free float all the way. Could be the problem..  Bill K :)


    Online BoydAllen

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+9)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4664
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #3 on: 09:40 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • If you don't mind, describe your rifle, what it is rested on, and where the rests make contact.

    Offline Hondo64d

    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 72
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #4 on: 09:59 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • If you don't mind, describe your rifle, what it is rested on, and where the rests make contact.

    Rifle is a Bryant Custom on a Stiller Predator Action with a Brux barrel.  The rifle is sound.  Mike is among the best there is.

    Please understand that I only see this vertical with this particular powder.  H4831 doesn't display it, giving rounder groups.  I just thought with the horizontal being so good, that if I could shrink the groups vertically, I might really have something.  Here is another group.  Same components, just 1gr less powder.



    Front Rest is a Caldwell Rock and rear is leather bag.  I position the forend where the bag is about 6" behind the tip.  There is about 2.5" between the bipod stud and the front of the bag.  I have no rear swivel stud.

    John
    « Last Edit: 10:02 AM, 10/16/11 by Hondo64d »

    Offline North Fork

    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Active Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 136
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #5 on: 10:17 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • If it was me i would play with the seating depth


    Online BoydAllen

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+9)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4664
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #6 on: 10:35 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • If another load does not produce vertical from the same rest setup, then it is likely the load. Have you established what the maximum load is? Where is your seating depth in relation to touch or jam (the longest that you can seat without the bullet being pushed back as the bolt is closed, at the neck tension being loaded with) ?

    Offline fullersson

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+4)
    • Senior Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 430
    • B&B Gunworks bbgunworks.com
      • B&B Gunworks
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #7 on: 10:52 AM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

    "Virgil said his practice was to seat the bullets so the engraving was half as long as the width of the lands. He noticed an interesting phenomenon with rifles that could really shoot: if the bullets were seated a little short and the powder charge was a bit on the light side, the groups formed vertically. As he seated the bullets farther out and increased the powder charge, the groups finally became horizontal. If he went still farther, the groups formed big globs. He said the trick is to find the midway point between vertical and horizontal. That point should be a small hole."

    The quote is from the article "Secrets of the Houston Warehouse". I would play with seating depth and powder charge. I don't just say that based on this article. In my personal experience powder charge and seating depth is what needs to be looked at when trying to tune a rifle. Brian Brown
    "That's not my job." Aren't we glad the Lord didn't feel that way?

    Offline WyleWD

    • Trade Count: (+7)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 794
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #8 on: 12:29 PM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • When it shoots a vertical string group like the ones shown, does it start at the top and go lower, or does it start at the bottom and go higher.... by any chance?  This is important to know for possibly solving your issue.

    If it just randomly throws them in a vertical string, I'd hold your current neck tension and try to sneak up a couple or three tenths in powder if there is room to do that first.  If no affect then go to your 42.5 load and up the neck tension a couple thousandths.  Just make one change at a time so that you know what is causing your issue. JMHO.  :)WD

    Offline jo191145

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+2)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1111
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #9 on: 08:05 PM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • I agree with Fullerson and Virgil King.

    Now if thats a 200yd target I would suggest seating the bullets .003" closer/into the lands. Sometimes/most of the time thats all thats required.
    If its 100yds more drastic tweaking may be required.
    Powder charges by Creighton Audette. Seating depths by Virgil King. Attitude by Ayn Rand =)

    Offline Outdoorsman

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1719
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #10 on: 08:42 PM, 10/16/11 »
  • Reply
  • I'm thinking if I can tune the vertical out of this load, it will do everything I could possibly ask of it. I'm probably going to start with systematic seating depth adjustments. Is that the right approach for getting rid of vertical stringing?

    Speedy Gonzalez covers a variety of issues that can cause Vertical at this link: http://www.accurateshooter.com/shooting-skills/cures-for-vertical-stringing/

    And as you can see, Tuning is just one of them. You can start where you want, then check off the categories, as you go.

    When I have vertical problems that are load induced, I can usually solve it within a 6/10th of a grain Range.

    Record what your load is now, then move up or down in 2/10th of a grain increments. For example, if have two bullet holes of vertical sitting on top of the bottom hole and my load is for instance 29.0 grains, if I go to 29.2, 29.4 and 29.6 grains, I can usually eliminate it.

    If I feel like it's eliminated, at say 29.4, I try 29.3, 29.4 and 29.5 to fine tune. Once I decide on which load I feel is best, THEN I'll start with seating depth adjustments for further refining. All of this is predicated on the fact that, all the other things that Speedy discusses, were not the cause.

    There are a lot of things that can cause Vertical, you have to work through each of them, one step at a time, until each one is eliminated. If you have a gut feeling that it's load related, then start there.


    Offline Hondo64d

    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Member
    • **
    • Posts: 72
    Getting Rid of the Vertical
    « Reply #11 on: 11:04 AM, 10/17/11 »
  • Reply
  • I appreciate everyone's reply.  A bunch of good info here.  Given how other powders have performed, I'm going to pursue tuning the vertical out with powder charge and seating depth.

    John

     

    Recent Classifieds

    DONATE HERE

    Sold Stuff Here? Donations Keep our Classifieds Free.


    Facebook LINK

    Advertise

    CLASSIFIEDS RULES

    All sellers must have a complete Forum profile, including City, State, and VALID email address. All sellers must provide current true identity, phone number and address to buyer on request.

    All sellers must enable their email and private message options.

    Sellers MUST state an asking price for all listed goods, which may be supplemented by a request for offers. This site does not provide auction functionality, so there is no automated procedure to accept, qualify, or rank bids.

    All sellers must mark sold items as "SOLD". And delete your ads when the transaction is complete. A "stickie" explains how to do this.

    All sellers must disclose if the item is posted for sale elsewhere and state that the item is "subject to prior sale."

    Any seller who uses deceptive photos, lies about key components or major defects will have his advert deleted without notice and is subject to being banned from the Forum forever.

    PROHIBITED PRODUCTS

    1. Damaged or bulged barrels (unless they are sold only as salvage metal and are clearly described as "not to be used with live ammunition".)

    2. Loaded ammunition that has been loaded or reloaded by a private party (e.g. NOT factory-loaded ammo).

    3. Hand-mixed powders of any kind, or powder of unknown origin/date/burn rate.

    4. Any actions, rifles, or sound suppressors with damaged or obscured serial numbers.

    5. Scopes with broken internals or broken lenses.

    Commercial Ads
    Commercial businesses which are current, paying sponsors may post Classifieds. These shall be posted in the "Commercial Sales" area ONLY. If you sell products commercially, and are NOT paying for advertising, you are NOT allowed to post Forum classifieds. Companies in violation will be black-balled.

    POLICY VIOLATIONS
    Any member selling/trading any item(s) on this board who accepts monies from another member without sending out the items purchased will be permanently banned from the Forum.