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Author Topic: 260 rem vs 7mm-08  (Read 13691 times)

Online mattri

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260 rem vs 7mm-08
« on: 06:50 PM, 09/25/11 »
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  • How do these two rounds stack up for shooting paper out to 600 yards? 

    Running the numbers through a couple of different ballistics calculators using 140gr bullets the drop and wind deflection are very, very close out to 600 yards.   

    Does one have an inherent accuracy edge over the other?  The 6.5 bullets have a higher bc, but the .284s retain their velocity better. 

    In a single shot rifle with a 28-30" barrel around 15-16lbs total weight, what does one offer that the other doesn't? 

    Not going to hunt with this rifle, just targets off the bench.  There are many carteridges that will fit this application, but when choosing between these two, which one and why? 


    Offline ChrisNZ

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #1 on: 02:28 AM, 09/26/11 »
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  • .. The 6.5 bullets have a higher bc, but the .284s retain their velocity better.  ...

    Umm, can you reword that maybe?

    Chris-NZ


    Online mattri

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #2 on: 05:03 AM, 09/26/11 »
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  •  All the data I've found shows that a 7mm-08 lauches a 140 grain bullet about 100fps faster than a 140 out of a 260.  Not only does the .284 caliber bullet leave the muzzle faster but loses velocity at a slower rate than the .264 bullet.  At 600 yards the .284 bullet has shed about 1000fps compared to the .264 that has lost around 1100fps. 

    These numbers are  based on published data, not real world tests, interested in hearing from those who shoot either or both of these rounds. 


    Offline BoilerUP

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #3 on: 05:31 AM, 09/26/11 »
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  • I don't think one is any different than the other.  The 260 may have a fuzz less recoil and use a fuzz less powder than the 7-08 but that's about it.

    I'd probably use 162gr vs. 140gr bullets in a 7-08 for target shooting given their superior BC; the difference between a 140 and 162gr bullet at 600 yards is roughly 200fps from the muzzle, 6 inches less drop, but 5 inches more drift in a 10mph wind.

    Online mattri

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #4 on: 07:58 AM, 09/26/11 »
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  • Interesting, I'll have to check them out, thanks.

    Offline learningshooter

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #5 on: 08:56 PM, 09/30/11 »
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  • I have to agree with Boilerup. Recoil is a deciding factor in the comparison. If you read the 7mm Cartridge guide found on the left side of the home page it explains why the 7mm-08 has been so popular for hunters but has lacked a strong following in competition.


    "Among benchrest or F-Class shooters, the 7mm08 is not commonly used. It is “too much cartridge” for hunter benchrest. In the F-Class game, it is completely overshadowed by the .308 Winchester because the .308 is one of the two cartridges officially allowed in F-TR class. You could bet, however, if the F-TR rules allowed the 7mm-08, many shooters would make the switch. In F-Open, the 7mm-08 has been passed over in favor of the 6.5-284, .284 Win, and short magnums. Reason being, with the 22-lb weight limit, it’s better to use a bigger cartridge that can push the big 7mms to higher speed–otherwise stick with something like a 6.5-284 which has substantially less recoil."


    Offline Monolithicman

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #6 on: 11:35 AM, 10/16/11 »
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  • Mattri, you have probably already made your purchase, but your post puzzles me. 

    First where did you find a 140g 7mm match bullet, I did a quick look and did not see one from the major makers.  Berger lightest 7mm is 168g.

    Second if a bullet has a higher BC then it will lose velocity less quickly, your statement that the 7mm is losing less velocity is impossible if it has a lower BC.  The advantage of the 260 rem is recoil to ballistic performance trade off.  The 260 rem will shoot as flat as a 300 Win Mag with far less recoil, the 7mm-06 will not.  To have a real apples and apples comparison look at Berger match bullets, the 140g has a G1 BC of 0.615 and the 168g 7mm has a G1 BC of 0.617.  The best you will do with a 7mm-08 is about 2650 fps with a 168g, the 260 rem will push the 140g Berger at about 2750, with less recoil.  Truly not a big diffrance but it may cost you a few points in a long match when that extra recoil adds up.

    The 260 Rem can also use the 130g Norma Diamond Line bullet at 2900fps, this bullet has a BC around 0.590 in my real world testing and is extremely accurate.  With the 2900 fps velocity it beats a 300 Win Mag with 190g for drop and drift, and will put any 7mm-08 to shame.

    Please run your drop data again and check your figures, I think you will find you made a small error somewhere, the better BC bullet will not lose velocity faster, and a 140g 7mm must have a lower BC than a 140g 6.5mm because BC is a function of shape not weight.

    Also consider 260 Rem brass is now available from Lapua, 7mm-08 is not.  A supply of top quality brass is a good reason to use 260 rem as well.  It's just a great cartridge.

    Good luck, and good shooting.
    « Last Edit: 11:40 AM, 10/16/11 by Monolithicman »

    Offline Raptor

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #7 on: 07:22 PM, 10/16/11 »
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  • Mono,
      I have put many thousands of  rounds through the 260s.(On my 3rd barrel) However your wrong about the 7MM-08.  It will push the 162 and 168s to 2700 to 2750fps on average.

      My soninlaw is looking at building one and I did a lot of research on them and talked to guys actually shooting them with the heavier bullets.

      Another thing that people just don't take into consideration is that no matter what the damn computers say the heavier bullets will shoot better in the wind. I have found this true time after time. I have shot the 6XC(105 Lapuas) next to my 260 and if its windy the 260(123 Lapuas) will out shoot the XC because of the wind drift. (I could actually use my XC data card or the 260 card because they were nearly identical. )

    If I was punching paper at 600yds I would  be shooting a 6dasher or 6BRX If I am shooting steel out to a  1000yds I will take a 7MM any day of the week. I just built a 284 and its just unreal!!
     

    Offline Monolithicman

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #8 on: 08:07 PM, 10/16/11 »
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  • Then you are running higher chamber pressure in the 7mm, so not an apple to apples comparison. I'm talking manual data, not what you can do if you push the limits.  You have to give up some velocity to the higher weight bullet.  I can push 130g Normas 3000 fps in 260 rem if I really ride the edge on pressure.

    Have you used the 130g norma bullets?  Until you do you have not really seen what the 260 rem can do.

    The 123 lapua has a better BC (0.527) than the 105 6mm (0.472) so of course it is better in the wind, weight is not the issue, BC is, now most heavier bullets have a better  BC so I can see how you might get that impression.

    Sure if you burn more powder and take more recoil you can do better, but in the human engineering compromises of velocity, BC, and recoil the 6.5 beats the 7mm for most shooters.  The question posed is 260 rem vs 7mm-08, so a 284 is irrelevant, of course you will get better ballistics with a bigger case.

    And where are the 7mm-08 lapua cases?

    The reality is to get the same BC in 7mm you need a 168g bullet, and if you push that bullet 2900fps+ you get more recoil than most people shoot well.  If you are capable of handling that recoil go for it.  If you are like me, recoil sensitive, then the 260 rem is the ticket, can shoot it all day with out getting flinchy. 

    Good luck and good shooting!

    Offline 2644ever

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #9 on: 04:01 PM, 10/17/11 »
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  • Re the .260 vs the .300 Win Mag you're absolutely right, Mister Mono, however you're too conservative velocity wise: You can push a 140 grain molyplated bullet at an easy 2950fps in a 27" barrel (never tried it in anything shorter) with the correct amount of 4831SSC or R-22 and I know, because I witnessed it, that 3000fps are reachable with the Norma 130 molyplated VLD, with outstanding accuracy. The .260 is the best kept secret: an alternative to most .30 magnums and the high sectional density  and the structure of the 140 grain hunting bullets makes it a terrific choice for hunting big game. With bullets ranging from 85 up to 160 grains, it makes the .243 Win and the 7-08 absolutely redondant, not to say useless.
    One remark: Lapua's .260 brass makes terrific 7-08 cases!

    Offline Monolithicman

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #10 on: 11:36 PM, 10/17/11 »
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  • Thanks for the good info 2644ever!

    My 260 Rem is a 24 inch barrel so I think in 24" velocity.  I'm sure with your 27" you can get those velocitys.  You are correct I prefer to be conservative, and safe, I've seen pressures come up quite a bit just going to a hot place I like to have some safety margin.   There are quite a few rounds out there that are redundant, but as they say variety is the spice of life.

    I'm sure you are right the Lapua 260 Rem brass would make great 7mm-08 brass, but why bother?  Who wants to neck up and fire form when you can get hands down better performance just keeping it 260 Rem and using the right gun?

    Good luck, and good shooting!

    Offline P72

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    260 rem vs 7mm-08
    « Reply #11 on: 12:20 AM, 10/18/11 »
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  • I have used both 7mm-08's & 6.5-.308(.260). I have used the 7mm-08 with 140 gr Nosler BT's (sort of like a match bullet) and the Speer 145gr 7mm match bullet and Win 760 powder at 1000yds, velocities were about 2850. I would expect that 7mm 162's shot at 2650 fps might outperform the 7mm 140's & 145's at long range. Actual BC's might not be as published due to unexpected factors causing computer program calculations to be incorrect. I like the .280 Rem better because I can get more slow burning powder in that case and I have problems buying .284 brass locally. My rifles had 24 inch barrels.

    My feeling is that the 7mm-08 could use more powder space for slower burning powders and 162gr bullets and the .260 has just about the right powder capacity with Re 19, Re22, H4831 and 140's at moderate velocities. I really like 6.5 mm rifles! At known target ranges the heavier pointy boat tail bullets do seem to perform better in the wind. I don't accept published BC's as absolutely correct for all situations and BC's are the basis of the ballistic program calculations.

    If I had to shoot some real big beast with a 7mm-08 with 150 gr plus bullets I would use a ball powder like W760 or Hunter but I would expect the results would be about the same as a 140 gr 6.5 bullet at some 100 fps slower shot from a .260.


     

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