Powder Valley Sinclair Int'l Midsouth Shooters Bruno Shooters' Supply Bullets.com Shooting Supplies Lapua Products at Grafs.com Click to Donate to Site
By Clicking HERE to Shop at Amazon.com You Can Help Support the Forum.

Author Topic: Check out this primer crater??  (Read 4493 times)

Offline vmaxpro

  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 357
Check out this primer crater??
« on: 08:12 PM, 03/17/11 »
  • Reply
  • 223 40gr vmax in front of 29gr h335 rem 7.5, lapua brass.  Its hard to see but it looks like the crater raised waaay up almost to a piercing.  Ive measured the brass and everything looks great?  The primers not even flattened.  Heres the thing, the firing pin measures .080 and its hole is a nice fit, but it protrudes .066!  Should I have this shortend to .045 and turned/bushed to .062?


    Offline RJinTexas

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+48)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 979
    • site $$ contributor
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #1 on: 09:15 PM, 03/17/11 »
  • Reply
  • Are you absolutely sure you do not have excessive head space, I've never seen a primer back out that far when the head space was correct. Did also pierce the primer?

    RJ
    Prairiedog Eradication Through Assassination just doing my part to support P.E.T.A.

    Offline NorCalMikie

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+18)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1577
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #2 on: 10:32 PM, 03/17/11 »
  • Reply
  • Like RJ mentioned, headspace? Case too short for the chamber and primer backed out when fired before being forced back against firing pin? Was the brass fireformed to that chamber?
    OZ never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.


    Offline ab_bentley

    • Trade Count: (+12)
    • Senior Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 497
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #3 on: 10:46 PM, 03/17/11 »
  • Reply
  • Maybe a sloppy firing pin is the culprit. Adam
    Ammo: Always need more

    Offline HillbillySniper

    • Trade Count: (+23)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 725
    • Send It!
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #4 on: 05:47 AM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • I agree with all the gents. My only thing is my 223AI has always done that. Now I do shot a slight compressed load but that's the norm for my rifle I have fire formed all my brass a couple times and only trimmed after the first firing but only enough to uniform all my brass.


              Hillbilly
    God Bless Our Troops... Especially Our Snipers.

    Offline Joe O

    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Active Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 165
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #5 on: 05:59 AM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • I agree with the fellows above.Looks like two problems,the least of which is the cratering.The headspace needs to be checked,as the primer does not show high pressure,just a misfit fireing pin.
    Ciao
    Joe O


    Offline 1shot

    • Trade Count: (+22)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 790
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #6 on: 06:31 AM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • Everything after the first shot is just practice.

    Offline vmaxpro

    • Trade Count: (+17)
    • Senior Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 357
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #7 on: 07:53 AM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • I think the headspace might be ok? The primer didnt actually back out its just the " crater" that flowed that far back.  Theres no slop in the pin either.  Do you guys think the firing pin is too big and the spring is weak? Its a Howa 1500. Thanks for all the replies!

    Offline NorCalMikie

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+18)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 1577
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #8 on: 07:58 AM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • Was the brass fireformed to the chamber? If not, when it got fired it pushed the primer out "some" before it got pushed back against the bolt head. I bet if you tried to reseat the primer it would go back in a bit?? JMHO.
    OZ never gave nothing to the Tin Man, that he didn't already have.

    Offline mikecr

    • Trade Count: (+2)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2057
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #9 on: 09:24 AM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • Were the flash holes opend up?
    And .045 protrusion does sound better to me. I recently tuned this with a 223 Cooper bolt, finding that greater than .045(by coincidence) opened my groups. So I backed it off until finding a perfect sweetspot for Feds. Would have to check my log to find the exact value.

    Offline vmaxpro

    • Trade Count: (+17)
    • Senior Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 357
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #10 on: 10:38 AM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • 2nd firing on the brass. Upd the charge .5gr.  Primer still seated tight so im lost haha.  How can i test the spring? Even on a very mild charge I get some flow.

    Offline SpencerC

    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Active Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 114
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #11 on: 02:19 PM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • I would reset your protrusion at .045 and see what it looks like. It's 50%longer than ideal at the moment and it will make somewhat of a difference.

    Offline skeetlee

    • Site $$ Contributor
    • Trade Count: (+105)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 2594
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #12 on: 04:37 PM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • Bottom line is that isnt good. It isnt safe, and it isnt supposed to happen. You have an issue that needs addressed asap. Probably excessive headspace. Get it fixed!! Lee
    Live Long And Shoot Often!!

    Offline vmaxpro

    • Trade Count: (+17)
    • Senior Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 357
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #13 on: 06:14 PM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • Wouldnt the datum line stretch w/ excessive headspace tho? I mean by measuring a fired vs sized case.

    Offline 6BRinNZ

    • Trade Count: (0)
    • Ace Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 846
    Check out this primer crater??
    « Reply #14 on: 08:07 PM, 03/18/11 »
  • Reply
  • I have a Howa 1500 Supreme varminter in .223 and 6mmBR. Both of these have the factory bolt face and firing pin. I use ADI powders and with hot loads on an unbushed bolt face and using a hard primer such as CCI 400s and 450s I have seen the primer flow as in your first picture...its basically a nipple, and its so large you probably couldn't fit it into a shell holder to resize the case. Softer primers would have pierced.

    For me I have found that primer piercing or excessive primer flow will be the first pressure signs in an unbushed bolt face, typically it appears in the vicinity of max to .5 grn over the max load, I don't normally have primer pocket or case expansion issues on an unbushed bolt face so I don't use them to judge the load. In a bushed bolt face its a totally different story.

    But I haven't seen anything like what you have in the second picture. The diameter of the primer flow typically looks the size of the firing pin from what I have experienced, it looks nothing like that picture. As the guys have mentioned I would typically see a little more primer flattening than what is in your picture.

    How hot are your loads? Based on the second picture I would get things checked out, and or check the load for something that would cause high pressures. I also agree with the guys about the excessive head space as I understand it can cause pressure like symptoms among other things.

    Be careful and good luck!
    « Last Edit: 08:29 PM, 03/18/11 by 6BRinNZ »


     

    Recent Classifieds

    DONATE HERE

    Sold Stuff Here? Donations Keep our Classifieds Free.




    Facebook LINK

    Advertise

    CLASSIFIEDS RULES

    All sellers must have a complete Forum profile, including City, State, and VALID email address. All sellers must provide current true identity, phone number and address to buyer on request.

    All sellers must enable their email and private message options.

    Sellers MUST state an asking price for all listed goods, which may be supplemented by a request for offers. This site does not provide auction functionality, so there is no automated procedure to accept, qualify, or rank bids.

    All sellers must mark sold items as "SOLD". And delete your ads when the transaction is complete. A "stickie" explains how to do this.

    All sellers must disclose if the item is posted for sale elsewhere and state that the item is "subject to prior sale."

    Any seller who uses deceptive photos, lies about key components or major defects will have his advert deleted without notice and is subject to being banned from the Forum forever.

    PROHIBITED PRODUCTS

    1. Damaged or bulged barrels (unless they are sold only as salvage metal and are clearly described as "not to be used with live ammunition".)

    2. Loaded ammunition that has been loaded or reloaded by a private party (e.g. NOT factory-loaded ammo).

    3. Hand-mixed powders of any kind, or powder of unknown origin/date/burn rate.

    4. Any actions, rifles, or sound suppressors with damaged or obscured serial numbers.

    5. Scopes with broken internals or broken lenses.

    Commercial Ads
    Commercial businesses which are current, paying sponsors may post Classifieds. These shall be posted in the "Commercial Sales" area ONLY. If you sell products commercially, and are NOT paying for advertising, you are NOT allowed to post Forum classifieds. Companies in violation will be black-balled.

    POLICY VIOLATIONS
    Any member selling/trading any item(s) on this board who accepts monies from another member without sending out the items purchased will be permanently banned from the Forum.