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Author Topic: INDUCTIVE Annealing  (Read 8314 times)

Offline moosetracker

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Ultrasonic Annealing
« Reply #15 on: 11:56 AM, 02/25/11 »
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    What kind of power supply is necessary for that tube to work

    The power supply, cooling fan, etc are all inside the tube. A 110V cord comes out the back and plugs into a wall outlet or in my case the timer. There's an on-off button on the tube that I have permanently held in the on position with the clamp that holds the tube. The thing is almost indestructible. When I was helping my neighbor scavenge parts to rebuild his pickup every junk yard we went to had a couple of them, all beat up but they all worked. They heat a rusty old nut to red hot in a few seconds.

    what does that timer consist of

    The timer is a relic from the old photo darkroom days used to turn the enlarger on and off. It will do 0-9 seconds in 0.1 second intervals or 0-99 seconds in one second intervals. Just set the time with the two switches then tap the blue bar to start each cycle. They show up frequently on E-bay. Gralab still sells a modernized version of the one I have.

    Which model do you use? I see that several models are available but they all seem to be limited to 600 watts. Is this enough to operate the Mini-Ductor?

    Offline Southern Marksman

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    INDUCTIVE Annealing
    « Reply #16 on: 02:49 PM, 02/26/11 »
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  • My name is Andrew Poe, I am the owner of the website linked to in the first few posts on this thread (thanks Heavies!). I used to be an active member on this forum (see number of posts), but haven't posted anything in a while. I've had a lot of other things going on...

    I've been working on an automated induction annealing machine on and off for about a year (maybe a little more) now, and I am almost done with it. My work on an automated machine has been hampered mainly by the cost (I'm forced to develop this on a limited budget), but thanks to several innovations and ideas from many people the cost has come way down.

    I originally started off with the mini-ductor as my induction heater, but have since moved to using a Roy 2.2 from Fluxeon Inc. Fluxeon's website is http://www.fluxeon.com/ in case you want to check them out. The new heater is more powerful, the cost is substantially less than even the best deal on a mini-ductor, and the guys are great to work with. If your interested in trying your hand at induction heating I would advise using Fluxeon's Roy 2.2. The way the heater works is different from the mini-ductor, but it is better suited for annealing brass.

    The advantages of using an induction heater to anneal instead of propane are numerous. The cases always heat to the exact same temperature, it's extremely quick and easy to set up, no worries about open flames or propane (the case is the only part that gets significantly hot), I could go on and on. The downsides are (up until recently) high cost, and induction heating is a little bit tricky to get right (hence the reason I've been working on this machine).

    The biggest tricks to using induction heat for annealing are getting the setup right, and controlling the heater. Work coils vary in their effectiveness; diameter of the work coil in relation to the case, number of turns and layers in the work coil, etc, all have an impact on the heaters output, as does what you are heating. Brass is a difficult metal to heat using this method because it is a very good conductor of electricity. Once you get the setup right though, the cases will heat very quickly. The difference between a perfect anneal and way overdone is typically less than 1/2 second.

    My machine is all microprocessor controlled and eliminates most of these problems. It operates in much the same way as the current propane annealers available, only with a very different heat source. The cases are loaded into a turntable, the machine rotates them into the flux concentrator (which takes the place of the work coil), then anneals the case. Time is controllable anywhere from 0.025 seconds up to 9.975 seconds, most cases take around 3 seconds to heat to the correct anneal temp of 700 degrees. I've got a LCD display screen on the machine to tell me what the machine is doing and the amount of time that the heater is set for.

    All that is required to run my machine is three simple steps:

    Set the height of the flux concentrator,
    Set the time the heater needs to run (can be a time recorded from previous runs since heat output is always consistent, or set a new time using test mode),
    Press start, then load cases as the machine anneals them.

    The way I have the machine set up now it has three modes of operation:

    1- Test mode. This mode allows you to run a test on 1 case. It is only used for setting up the amount of time to anneal the case.

    2- Automatic mode. This is the "normal operation" mode. The operator loads the cases, and the machine anneals them. Total time per case varies depending on how long the heater is set for, but I tend to average about 5 seconds total per case. I usually anneal lots of 100 cases at a time and it takes me about 10-12 minutes (including setup).

    3- Manual mode. This mode is handy for doing things that don't allow for the work piece to be moved by the turntable (like annealing bullets or bonding lead cores to jackets for those that make their own bullets). In this mode I have to press a button every time the heater needs to be run, then I have to manually move that object out and the next one in.

    I'm trying to get the final prototype housing completed this weekend, and I've got the last of the electronics coming in next week. Hopefully my prototype should be 100% done within 2 weeks. When it is done and I'm (mostly) satisfied with it I'll post pictures and a video of it in action here and on my own site.

    I hope this post helps answer some questions about induction annealing in general and my machine as I see in my absence here I've gotten several PM's about it.
    Owner of & Chief Instructor for The Southern Marksman, LLC
    NRA Life Member, NRA CRSO,  Multi-Discipline NRA Certified Instructor

    Offline Silverfox

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    INDUCTIVE Annealing
    « Reply #17 on: 04:48 PM, 02/26/11 »
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  • Carolina Marksman--Very interesting project you have taken on there.  I'll look forward to hearing more about your progress in the future.  Good luck in getting this machine working.

    Offline Heavies

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    « Reply #18 on: 05:11 PM, 02/26/11 »
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  • Carolina Marksman,
    I am glad to see you are still working on your machine. I have been following what you have posted on your site and some others as well. +1 on seeing what you have done so far, and thank you for sharing your info.  ;D

    Offline Donkey

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    INDUCTIVE Annealing
    « Reply #19 on: 03:06 AM, 02/27/11 »
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  • Thank you for that Andrew.

    2 Weeks eh? I could be a starter for one of those all being well.

    Best Wishes
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice but in practice there is.

    Offline Jeffvn

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    INDUCTIVE Annealing
    « Reply #20 on: 06:42 AM, 02/27/11 »
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  • Andrew let us know when you are ready to start selling your machine.  My avoidance of this method so far has been my concern for controlling the timing.  I anneal with flames currently, and would love to stop burning propane in my garage.   If you nail down a progressive loading option for a machine with timing control, I'm very interested.


    Offline moosetracker

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    INDUCTIVE Annealing
    « Reply #21 on: 09:26 AM, 02/27/11 »
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  • I'm glad to see you're still working on the induction annealer Andrew - I thought you had abandoned the idea because of costs. Like others have said I'm interested in the final product. In fact I was going to try the mini-ductor route as described by DaveBerg, but now I'll wait till you've completed your prototype.

    Are you going to provide updates to those on your mailing list?

    Offline bglenn

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    INDUCTIVE Annealing
    « Reply #22 on: 10:19 PM, 03/31/11 »
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  • Is there anything new on this?

    Glenn B.

    Offline Scott Harris

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    INDUCTIVE Annealing
    « Reply #23 on: 11:09 PM, 03/31/11 »
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  • So, after reading this, and looking at Dave Berg's setup, I went on ebay and replicated exactly what he did.  I have a triple torch annealer from Ballistic Edge to compare against.  After you get everything adjusted, the induction is very fast and repeatable.  I'd have to say I prefer the induction method and feel it is overall more consistent: no flames flickering or fluctating as a the gas pressure runs down.  But, my concern is about the long-term durability of the induction unit.  It's a pretty expensive unit and if it fails, then this method will go from "very nice" to "damn i just blew up a $300 induction unit."  I'm keeping my torches on standby. :)
    « Last Edit: 11:10 PM, 03/31/11 by scotharr »


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