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Author Topic: 264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH  (Read 4711 times)

Offline drouinhomebuilders

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264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
« Reply #15 on: 04:20 PM, 06/28/10 »
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  • Thanks Wapiti
                       & you may be right, loads over the weekend are showing max fps from Retumbo, but the hunt isnt over until all the dogs are in the crate.


    Offline drouinhomebuilders

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #16 on: 04:37 PM, 06/28/10 »
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  • Dear Roger,
                   I did some working up over weekend, with Sierra 123 MK, I started out with H1000, which got me to nearly 3550fps, went all the way to 50BMG & got bogged down there and it was very dirty burning too, Ramshot Magnum maxed out before 3600fps, Retumbo got me to 3700fps & spiked and US 869 whilst not finished, may get me to 3650fps???? US869 burned clean & was less sensitive to increments.
    I dont know if its worth pursuing any further with 50BMG???
    Im also thinking that I need to try AA8700 & VV24N21??? maybe even VV20N29
    I have detailed notes with belt expansions & all velocities & results, could you look at my progress & tell me where to go??? could I email my work for evaluation????
    I really dont have enough experience to know where I should go.
    much appreciated
    Peter

    Offline willsnipe

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #17 on: 05:09 PM, 06/28/10 »
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  • Peter, I was looking for my Wildcat Cartridges Vol II book but I must have loaned it out :(. I know that there was 2 sections on the 6.5-300WH in there.

    It looks like the only powder they tested extensively with was H-870. Highest velovity was 86.0 gr. behind a 139 gr Norma bullet. 3,527 w/a 30" barrel and 3,405 @ 26".  No tests of the 120s were reported.


    Offline drags

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #18 on: 05:20 PM, 07/03/10 »
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  • I don't have a 6.5wwh but I have a 7/300 wby which is a good round also. The 6.5wwh is considered one of the best long range hunting rounds by the old time longrange hunters here in penna.
    drags

    Offline drouinhomebuilders

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #19 on: 03:55 PM, 07/04/10 »
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  • Hey drags,
                   any of those guys got any load data? or what is working for you in the 7/300?

    Peter

    Offline drags

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #20 on: 06:53 PM, 07/04/10 »
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  • If you do a google search you can get load data for the 6.5 wwh. I load 87grs of h870 with a 168gr smk in the 7/300 wby which is a max. load in my rifle. IMR 7828 is also a good powder for the 7/300 wby.
    drags


    Offline 2506

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #21 on: 08:43 PM, 07/05/10 »
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  • I run Retumbo and 130 Nosler Accubonds in my 264 Win mag. 66.5 grs Retumbo and the 130 AB will do 3350 fps out of my 27 3/4" barrel and shoots bug holes. I just got the rifle in the winter of 08 after deer season was over. I used it to take 4 deer with last season 09 from 98 to 275 yards and all were bang flop. I really like the 130 AB.

    I will agree that there is something about the .257 bullets moving fast as real deer killers. I have used a number of 25-06's over the years and they just plan kill way beyond what you think they should. I like the 117 Sierra for deer. My buddy used a 257 Weatherby for a while with same results.

    Offline wapiti25

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #22 on: 11:01 AM, 07/06/10 »
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  • You asked about imr 7828.  I have found that it only worked outstanding in a couple of loads using several calibers.  It was only fair in others.  I did not find it as slow as a lot of the other powders you have mentioned.  I did find a 7mm rem mag load using the 150 to be outstanding in all aspects.  I appeared to me to be a slightly slower version of h4831.  I have not worked with the SC version yet.

    Offline drouinhomebuilders

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #23 on: 09:32 AM, 07/07/10 »
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  • Dear Drags,
                    thank you for your input, sadly H870 is no longer available, 7828 is way too fast for the 264 Wby & powder selection from what Ive found, really starts at H-1000 & gets slower from there, to date Retumbo is the best suitable with velocities approaching 3700fps using a 120MK in a 26" barrel.
    Im thinking that H-870 & AA8700 MAY have been good (sadly both are discontinued)
    I do have canisters of both VihtaVuori 24N41 & VihtaVuori N570 on the way, thinking that these may work?
    US869 was ok and very very clean burning, H50bmg was very dirty burning
    I figure that from what Ive seen so far, the magic burn rate is somewhere between Retumbo and US869, only time will tell.
    VihtaVuori 24N41 is apparently, no longer made???
    the ideal 

    Offline drags

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #24 on: 06:13 PM, 07/07/10 »
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  • DHB, you may be able to find h870 in some gunshops or running a wtb ad on the internet. I have also used wc872 also and it worked as well as h870 in my 7/300wby but it's hard to find now.
    Drags

    Offline drouinhomebuilders

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #25 on: 06:54 AM, 07/08/10 »
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  • Hey dear Drags,
                           you mention WC 872 in your 7mm/300, please tell me more, I am considering buying some WC872, WC867 & maybe even some H or IMR 5010 as I also have a 338/378 & 30/378, please let me know of all the powders that you have run in your 7mm/300, what gave best velocity and where did WC872 rank in the velocity comparisons with other powders?

    Thanks again Drags.

    Peter

    Offline drags

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #26 on: 06:14 PM, 07/08/10 »
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  • I used 87gr of wc872 in the 7/300 velocity was about 100fps less than h870 as my lot of wc872 was slower burning than h870. If you know where wc872 can be found let us know.
    Drags

    Offline Laurie

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #27 on: 03:28 PM, 07/12/10 »
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  • Hi Peter,

    got your PM. I must say this cartridge is way out of usual size zone - .300 H&H Mag and 6.5-284 the biggest I've played with to date! But, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    Had a look through my many printed data sources and found what you probably did too - ie found nothing. .264 Win Mag is as big a .264 as anybody provides loads data for. Well, not quite - good old P.O.Ackley has some from many, many years back.

    139gn Norma match bullet 31" test barrel:

    88-90gn H202 (3,472)
    88-90gn 283 (3,341)
    84-87gn H870 (3,591)

    Designed for 1,000yd shooting. Work by Bruce Hodgdon showed this was as big a case as you could use with the calibre even with slower burning powders.

    Anyway, none of the above available now, so let's look at the QuickLOAD PC internal ballistics program. I couldn't find it at first in the cartridge listing, so played with the even larger cased 6.71 Lazzeroni Blackbird - more on that in a bit.

    Anyway ......... then noticed 6.5-300 Weatherby which is what I presume we're talking about here since you mention necking down and neck-turning .300 WBM brass?

    Right, try H870 first to see if a max load matches Ackley, and what people are saying here. 85gn works out at around max load for 3,255 fps with a 140gn Nosler Partition at standard COAL from a 26" barrel which all sounds right. Increase barrel length to 31" and MV rises to 3,418 fps, all in line with Ackley etc given this is just a model that makes various assumptions.

    I can see why H870 should be regarded as near ideal - 85gn = 99% fill ratio at 62,546 psi with a 100% charge burn in a 26" barrel - pushes all the right buttons.

    So, since you can't get H870 (I actually have a pound in my powder cupboard that I bought cheap thinking I'd find some use for it, not realising just how slow a burner it is. Unfortunately, 1lb in North Yorkshire 5,000 miles from Texas doesn't get us far.)

    So ........... let's look at other powders in QuickLOAD


    Hodgdon US869. 90gn, full case 3,200 fps, but only 96.5% burn - bit too slow methinks

    Hodgdon 50BMG. 86.5gn, full case 3,234 fps, 93.7% burn - that less than 99% burn worries me.

    Hodgdon Retumbo. 81gn, 97% full case also 3,234 fps 100% burn - looks good

    IMR-7828 (long grain version). 73gn, 100% burn 90% full case 3,225 fps. Too fast I'd say.

    Norma MRP-2. 77gn 3,208 fps 100% burn, 92.5% fill.

    Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy). 79gn 3,235 fps 100% burn, 79% fill - I'd prefer to tun at 90% + fill ratio with a case this size over 6.5mm bore.

    Viht N170. 81gn 3,186 fps 99% burn, 98% fill ratio. Looks promising despite less velocity than others. I find Viht single base powders a bit peaky in smaller cartridges, so this could be 'iffy' in this big case.

    Viht N570. 82gn 3,297 fps 99.6% burn, 93% fill. This could be a good prospect. N500 series powders often suit over bore capacity cartridges.

    Viht 20N29. 93gn 3,215 fps 98.4% burn, 104% (compressed) fill. Maybe a bit slow burning, but a possible good choice depending on bullet and your COAL.

    All loads with the Nosler 140gn Partition seated to give 3.56" COAL and producing pressures somewhere between 62,000 and 64,500 psi.

    Usual warnings apply - QuickLOAD is a computer model and so everything has to be taken with a big pinch of salt. Start 10-15% down and work up. No liability accepted thanks!

    I find QuickLOAD usually pretty accurate as a starting point, but have been caught out with the occasional combination that the program said would be below max pressures - and wasn't!

    If you want me to run a particular bullet at a particular COAL with any bullet, PM me and also let me know your barrel length.

    Regards,

    Laurie,
    York, England

    PS the Lazzeroni, nearly forgot it. No loads available, but the 6.71 (6.5mm cal) Lazzeroni Blackbird has an even bigger case than the 6.5 WBY (105gn water capacity v 100gn, so around 5% larger). You would have to reduce loads for the smaller Weatherby case. Just a thought - might be worth contacting Lazzeroni and asking for a powder suggestion or two. I'd bet they'd never give any loads data both on commercial secrecy and fear of litigation grounds, but they might just give a pointer as to what they've found a good powder with a particular bullet weight. Worth a try anyway!

    Offline drouinhomebuilders

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    264 Weatherby or 6.5 WWH
    « Reply #28 on: 08:57 AM, 07/13/10 »
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  • Dear Laurie,
                     I much appreciate your time & input, your quick load assumptions are pretty much correct from my load work doen so far, it really starts @ H1000 & gets slower from there, so far Retumbo has shown me the best results, but Im not quite finished yet.I have some WC-867 & WC-872 on the way, its virgin surplus that may be too slow,but @ $9 per pound its worth a try, if its too slow, I can try it in a 30/378 & 338/378 that I have.Ive done much looking & thinking & VVN570 seems to be worth a try & are about to get my hands on some for a try of that, seems there may be a free ride in that somewhere, I have done some interpolation with other cartridges & see considerable velocity advantages with the N570???? (time will tell)
    I sure would like to email my data & results to you for your comments.
    Ive done the work so far with 120g MK & will next try Barnes 120g TSX, as I have found that the banded shank does decrease pressure for same or better velocity.
    Thanking you again Laurie.
    Peter
     

     

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