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Author Topic: Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face  (Read 3085 times)

Offline Nomo4me

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Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
« on: 10:06 PM, 03/12/10 »
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  • Here are some pics of a 2nd hand LRPV I got a deal on.   It's a 6BR 1-12" twist DBM bought to serve as a sub-600 yard varminter.

    Photos show:

    1.Dished bolt face around firing pin

    2. Raised bumps at the muzzle where the grooves are - was this rifle button rifled after the barrel was faced off?

    3. Very limited bolt lug contact - only at the base of the lugs. 

    I'm guessing this bolt head was left in the vibratory tumbler wayyyyy too long.  I've got another Savage of recent mfr with a good, crisply finished bolt head.

    25 rounds down the gun, supposedly shoots very well. 

    I'd like to hear comments please.  Haven't shot the gun yet.










    Offline BillPa

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #1 on: 12:26 AM, 03/13/10 »
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  • Here are some pics of a 2nd hand LRPV I got a deal on.   It's a 6BR 1-12" twist DBM bought to serve as a sub-600 yard varminter.

    Photos show:

    1.Dished bolt face around firing pin

    2. Raised bumps at the muzzle where the grooves are - was this rifle button rifled after the barrel was faced off?

    3. Very limited bolt lug contact - only at the base of the lugs. 

    I'm guessing this bolt head was left in the vibratory tumbler wayyyyy too long.  I've got another Savage of recent mfr with a good, crisply finished bolt head.

    25 rounds down the gun, supposedly shoots very well. 

    I'd like to hear comments please.  Haven't shot the gun yet.


     Wonder who the blacksmith was?  ( No offense to blacksmiths, they generally do better work than that ). Why anyone would chamfer a pin hole like that is beyond me. It ain't factory!

     The lug contact?  Hard to tell , but just a guess from the rest of the outstanding work I assume he/she/it tried truing the lugs. One hint might be where the fillet used to be at the junction of the shaft and lugs has been turned square. On the bolthead on the right you can see were the fillet should be.

     I imagine the lugs were cut first then the radius leaving a shoulder, the reason your only seeing contact at that point which is about where top of the fillet was.

     The crown? God only knows what went on there! The muzzle recess is cut AFTER the barrel is rifled. What was done to pull the metal forward like that is anyone's guess....a pry bar of sorts maybe?

    At this point I'd strip the bolthead  and see how far you can throw it  then buy a new one.( Midway or SSS) Its beyond repair. Recrowning the muzzle is the only fix for the barrel.

    Bill
    « Last Edit: 12:29 AM, 03/13/10 by BillPa »

    Offline Nomo4me

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #2 on: 12:30 AM, 03/13/10 »
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  • This is all Savage factory work.  The gun has 25 rounds down the bbl. 

    I wonder if their warranty will cover this for a 2nd owner.  I've got the box and registration card.


    Offline BillPa

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #3 on: 12:43 AM, 03/13/10 »
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  • This is all Savage factory work.  The gun has 25 rounds down the bbl. 

    I wonder if their warranty will cover this for a 2nd owner.  I've got the box and registration card.

    Well my friend, I've worked on more than a few Savage rifles,and have have yet to see one in that condition from the factory including the 18 I own.  I agree the bolt faces at time are dished to some extent, the larger ( .532") being the worst, but the chamfer your showing...NADA!  That and the absence of the fillet on the shaft has been work done by someone sometime post leaving the factory.

    Bill

    Offline fayettefatts

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #4 on: 06:50 AM, 03/13/10 »
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  • I bought a new Savage target action a couple of years ago and the bolt face was dished on it also. Not quite like yours though. Yours looks much worse right around the firing pin hole. Mine was dished across the entire face. Savage replaced it. The new bolt face they sent is dished a bit as well, but not nearly as bad as the old one was. Like you said, I think they are tumbling them too long. I would replace that bolt head. They are inexpensive. I am  considering having my firing pin bushed and the bolt face squared next barrel change. It's shooting too well to mess with right now. Don't have any ideas on your other issues. Good Luck!

    Offline Travelor

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #5 on: 06:55 AM, 03/13/10 »
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  • Contact Savage and send it back!  They stand behind their products.

    I agree with your assessment of the bolt face.  I ahve hear they are using ceramic tumbling media and this is causing the bolt face dishing.  If not corrected this will result in cratered primers with normal loads.

    The barrel - who knows.

    George
    No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.


    Offline BillPa

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #6 on: 08:16 AM, 03/13/10 »
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  • Contact Savage and send it back!  They stand behind their products.

    I agree with your assessment of the bolt face.  http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/sharp-shooter/boltheadsnew.jpgthey are using ceramic tumbling media and this is causing the bolt face dishing.  If not corrected this will result in cratered primers with normal loads.

    The barrel - who knows.

    George

    No offense intended George, but I wish those passing info around would get their facts straight.

    First, the boltheads are made by a outside vendor, Savage only assembles them (ejector-extractor) and are installed.  The assembly stage would be the first "In house" inspection where something like that would have found it way in the trash can.

     The "dishing" is a result of final polishing, tumbling in steel shot and runs entirely across the bolt face. As I said, the larger diameters generally being the worst.

     The occasional cratering issue is a combination of three things, the dishing, a very small amount of chamfering on the edge of the pin hole, a result of the polishing and the firing pin tip profile. The first two conditions are easily corrected with a light facing cut. The third condition is the firing pin tip profile. They're ground on a slight taper with extends about ".025 back past the tip. Since a primer stops the pin forward travel in the .020" range the taper allows a gage between the pin and the pin hole. Re-contouring the tip to a radius allows the full pin diameter to remain in the pin hole on a primer.  Remember, the primer stops the pin forward travel regardless of the static protrusion.

     Two examples, the factory tip profile on the left and one re-contoured on the right.



    Referring back to the fillet at the junction of the shaft and lugs, here are examples of the boltheads used today. Notice the fillet is visible on each and every one.


    Its a result of the tooling used when the shaft and lugs are machined by the vendor. If its not there the bolthead was modified somewhere after leaving the factory.

    Bill

    Offline Nomo4me

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #7 on: 09:53 AM, 03/13/10 »
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  • Bill the barrel isn't fluted on this gun so I'm thinking it's an early version.  You are dead wrong though about this gun having been 'smithed on.  It's just as Savage shipped it. 
    I'll contact Savage for a warranty replacement of the Bolt Head.


    Offline Joe Zullo

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #8 on: 04:17 PM, 03/14/10 »
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  • Your bolt head is unlike any factory Savage bolt head I've ever seen. I'm going to agree with BillPa. That bolt head was altered by some one!

    Offline Nomo4me

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #9 on: 04:48 PM, 03/14/10 »
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  • I'd have no problem saying it was altered if that were the case - aint a matter of honor or integrity with me. 

    But it's as the factory finished it.  Indicating such is the top of the left lug.  It's polished off exactly like the rest of the bolt head (sloppy) but the laser-etched dot matrix serial number has never been buffed or after-polished.  This head was tumbled, then polished, then lazer (or carbide tip indent, whatever technology was used) etched with the last 4 digits of the SN. 

    So no suppositions or exclamation points! please.




    Offline Joe Zullo

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #10 on: 06:15 PM, 03/14/10 »
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  • I'm not inferring that you altered it or impugning your integrity. Since it is an 'early' model as you say, maybe it was the factory that altered the bolt head before it left as an experiment or something. But as I said, it is unlike any  factory Savage bolt head I've ever seen.

    Offline Steve Blair

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #11 on: 07:34 PM, 03/14/10 »
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  • The bolt face looks similar to the 12F 6BR that I bought. I have two 12Fs and the first had a pronounced bolt face dish. I sent both (one yesterday) to Fred at SSS. He took a light pass across the face and now it looks fine.

    The muzzle is bizarre and I cannot imagine how that occurred. My 6BR barrel shoots very well and is crowned correctly.

    The locking lug is not as bad as it looks. While we would all prefer full contact across the lug, the load is well supported at the lug base with almost no cantilever. If pressure forced the lugs back and plastically deformed the radius, it would yield until there was sufficient contact to resist the pressure. It is not unsafe and may not even affect accuracy if both lugs have similar contact. Again, Fred took at light pass across my lugs and locking recesses and a Marksalot shows full contact on both.

    Factory Remingtons these days also show some shortcuts. Comparing my 1978 40XBR to a current Remington is like looking at the original and a Chinese clone.
    Sleepygator

    Offline medicineman

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #12 on: 12:12 AM, 03/15/10 »
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  • Maybe it's because I work on more of them than anybody else, but I have seen a few that exibit the same traits. Although it's good than you have a sharp eye for details, it may just be a visual annoyance at this point. All of Savages rifles are test fired with 1 proof load and 3 factory loads for function. Evidentally, this one passed, although maybe not with flying colors.
     The big question is: what does it do on paper?
    Does the dish in the bolt face cause primer problems? I would atleast fire 1 round and inspect the case and the primer, if nothing else to prove your case to Savage.
    I would consider your rifle less than acceptible, but I've seen a lot worse and was amazed how they shot.
    "You can think about it, read about it, and even dream about it, but you'll never get good unless you expend ammo..."

    Offline Nomo4me

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #13 on: 12:34 AM, 03/15/10 »
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  • Thanks guys, now we're getting to the kind of help I was after.

    I'm just on the tail end of a Pierce/Kreiger based 6 x 47L build and pretty much tapped $$ wise, especially with Uncle Sam's due share to be disclosed this week.

    So it will be a month or two before I can scrape together the $$ for a good scope, DNZ rings, dies, brass etc and begin working with it.   I too am really scratching my head on the crown thing - especially since it seems the bumps are at the ends of the lands, rather than the grooves as I stated in the OP.

    So does anyone offer pre-trued bolt heads or is it customary to send one in for the work?


    Thanks for the help!

    Mike

    Online rocketron

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    Savage 6BR LRPV - dished bolt face
    « Reply #14 on: 06:29 AM, 03/15/10 »
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  • just throwing this idea at the wall to see if it sticks.........could it be a burr that was left when the crown was done? then when it was fired it rolled out.

    ron


     

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