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Author Topic: Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR  (Read 5934 times)

Offline Snowwolfe

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Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
« on: 09:00 PM, 11/13/09 »
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  • On Monday am either ordering a Savage 12 as a single shot or a 4 shot repeater in 6mm Norma BR. Currently reload for over a dozen calibers and consider myself pretty knowledgeable. Since some of my loading is for the really long rounds such as the 9,3, 458 Lott, etc my press is an RCBS Ammomaster.
     From my recent readings and research it seems more than a few people are not a fan of tight necks and the neck turning needed to go along with them. Have no adversion to turning necks but many years ago used to do it and never noticed much difference.

    Now, (correct me if I am wrong) it seems that any reloading dies labeled 6mm BR, 6mm Rem BR, etc are for the same cartridge as the 6mm Norma BR. So all this brings me to my question.


    I need to order a set of reloading dies that will give me the best results with my given press and without requiring neck timming (other than maybe a light cleaning of the neck to assure consistency). Not interested in competing in matches, just trying to find a rifle and load without going to extremes.

    What reloading dies would you recommend?


    Offline Steve Blair

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #1 on: 09:14 PM, 11/13/09 »
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  • You might try the Redding Type S Match Full Length set. The bushings provide the flexibility to adjust neck tension and accommodate no turn, light turn, different brass lots, etc. while still allowing light full-length sizing and shoulder bump. The seating die in that set is very good. Here is the set at Sinclair. You might find it cheaper elsewhere.
    Sleepygator

    Offline cmillard

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #2 on: 10:08 PM, 11/13/09 »
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  • forster also makes great dies for that round--full length and neck only sizing
    Cole Millard 1155


    Offline Snowwolfe

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #3 on: 12:49 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • You might try the Redding Type S Match Full Length set. The bushings provide the flexibility to adjust neck tension and accommodate no turn, light turn, different brass lots, etc. while still allowing light full-length sizing and shoulder bump. The seating die in that set is very good. Here is the set at Sinclair. You might find it cheaper elsewhere.

    Did some reading on these and I like! So the 6mm Rem BR is the same as the 6mm Norma BR correct?

    Offline Steve Blair

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #4 on: 01:09 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Yes, and no. This article on 6mmbr.com will give you more background than you need (but it is still interesting).
    Sleepygator

    Offline fdshuster

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #5 on: 05:13 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Snowwolfe: Good information on the previous postings. Looking at the Redding box & label for my 6BR dies, #77317, and like most others, it too is identified as " 6MM B.R. Remington".  The large red plastic box for the Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater Die is labeled 6BR REM part#U00037. I continue to not understand why the manufacturers use the "old" Remington designation, when it is all but obsolete, with the vast majority of users having the current Norma chambering. They (the die makers) are adding to the confusion. All that being said, I prefer the Redding Type S bushing style full length sizing die, and the Forster Ultra micrometer seating die. Added a 22BR chambering several years ago, and did not have to buy another set of dies: just added a few extra bushings (.246",.247" and .248"), and use the 6BR sizing (and seater) dies as is. Has been a very successful combination.
    Civilian Marksmanship Program/ Distinguished Pistol, 1982


    Offline Laurie

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #6 on: 05:47 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • I use Forster dies on my 6BR Norma, and am very pleased with them except on one count that you can get sorted.

    The sizer dies (both neck and FL types) took Lapua necks down far too much requiring a substantial amount of work by the expander ball (or the mandrel that I prefer). Forster offered a service - presumably still do - where they will open the neck section up to whatever you specify if you send them your own die. (I learned of this on the 6mmBR.com website) As I'm in the UK that wasn't really practical, but an email to Forster saw them make me a custom FL body and ship it in under a week.

    This gives you the same benefit as the Redding Type S but without the flexibility that bushings offer of course. Since the only 6BR brass we see in the UK is Lapua and it's pretty consistent neck thickness-wise from lot to lot, that's not a problem though.

    My rifle has a SAAMI minimum chamber and it is TIGHT. New Lapua cases have a percentage that are marginally over-size giving really hard extraction, so I had to get a Redding small-base body die too. Using the body die every four or five loadings, and the custom Forster FL sizer throughout gives good results, hardly any working of the brass on each reloading (in the tight no-turn chamber, necks only expand a couple of thou'), and long case life. I've tried a little neck-turning just to uniform the cases, but I honestly can't see any benefit in the results so far.

    The other thing I quickly found with both Forster FLS and Redding body dies was that setting the die up to touch the shellholder pushed the shoulder back far too much - like over 20 thou'. I don't know if this is a peculiarity of my chamber, or if the dies are deliberately set up that way because of the 6BR's history and variety of chamber variations still around, but it's something to watch.

    Laurie,
    York, England

    Offline fdshuster

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #7 on: 06:10 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Laurie: I believe if you took a survey the results would show that most of "us" on this side of the pond disregard the "instructions" to adjust the sizer die down 'til it touches the top of the shellholder. For one thing, shellholders do vary in thickness so right there any precision adjustment goes out the window. I've always used the Stoney Point/Hornady gauge with the headspace attachments and take a dimension from a newly fired case, measuring from the base of the case to the datum reference point on the shoulder of the case, and adjust my lock ring on the sizer die to that same dimension, if I want to lock up the loaded round "snuggly" front to rear, in the chamber with a little resistance on bolt closing. When bolt closing becomes too tight/harder to close, I will set the shoulder back about .002", usually after 4 or 5 reloadings. The "screw it down 'til it touches the shellholder" is one-size-fits-all, guaranteeing that all ammo will fit in all chambers, even those that may be short. I have some of my benchrest chamberings (6ppc, 22BR, 6BR) that are so closely fitted I am able to take a fired case, clean it off & reload without any sizing what-so-ever. Brass (Lapua of course) lasts for over 30 loadings with no stretching or trimming required. Usually have to toss it out when primer pockets start to open up. :)
    Civilian Marksmanship Program/ Distinguished Pistol, 1982

    Offline Laurie

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #8 on: 06:41 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Quote
    I've always used the Stoney Point/Hornady gauge with the headspace attachments and take a dimension from a newly fired case, measuring from the base of the case to the datum reference point on the shoulder of the case, and adjust my lock ring on the sizer die to that same dimension

    Frank,

    same here! I'm a near fanatic for measuring case headspace length on each and every case sizing session using the Stoney-Point gear.

    For some reason, I didn't use it on the first batch of ammo I loaded for this rifle - in a hurry, or maybe no fired brass available. The giveaway that something was wrong was the amount of case stretching I subsequently found showing something was obviously not right given the tight chamber.

    The point at issue was the amount of shoulder setback. I'd never found so much with any other cartridge using factory dies - and I have a fair bit of experience as I write on handloading for various UK shooting magazines and have probably tried my hand with 40 or 50+ cartridges over the years.

    The only similar situation I've come across is the good (bad?!) old .303 service cartridge where the problem is deliberately oversized chambers allied to headspacing on the case-rim, some chambers so 'roomy' up front that fired cases look like 'improved' brass, albeit without the sharp Ackley shoulder form, case-neck length much reduced by shoulders moving forward!

    Best wishes,

    Laurie


    Offline jo191145

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #9 on: 10:37 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Frank

    I think die manufacturers continue to use the confusing designations because the dies are interchangable. I do agree time is up for the 6BR Remington and its time to rename everything appropriately.

    When I ordered my first 6BR barrel I noticed Shilen still has reamers designated 6BR Remington and if memory is correct only one reamer designated 6BR Norma. This too adds to the confusion.
    The very nice woman on the phone could'nt give me specifics beyond the info on the site.
    Being green I just told her I want a Norma chamber appropriatly throated for an 8 twist barrel.
    I figured Shilen knew more than I about freebore and would get it right. They did a great job IMO ;D
    Powder charges by Creighton Audette. Seating depths by Virgil King. Attitude by Ayn Rand =)

    Offline fdshuster

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #10 on: 11:03 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • jo191145: I've been corresponding with a very active shooter/reloader in France for almost 3 yrs now, who recently had a custom 6BR built, and he also was confused about the issue, so the problem is "worldwide". There could be a problem if somehow a chamber were cut with the original Remington dimensions, then the reloader tried to chamber Lapua/Norma brass, it being 1.560" vs. 1.520" for the Rem. Bolt closing would also be a problem, since I believe the Lapua/Norma is approx. .002" larger dia. in the case head: all designed to prevent a Lapua/Norma from being chambered in a Remington chamber. Anyway, just a little stumbling block with a really great cartridge, my #1 favorite in 6mm. ;)
    Civilian Marksmanship Program/ Distinguished Pistol, 1982

    Offline jo191145

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #11 on: 11:25 AM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Frank

    No doubt, The two differing cartridges should not be mixed. You could shoot a 6BR Remington in a Norma chamber, right? I would'nt do it but I doubt anything bad would happen.
    The off the shelf dies are interghangeable tho.

    Unless we're willing to let the United Nations step in and demand uniformity we'll just have to live with the slight confusion. I for one vote for the confusion :D

    By the way. I also vote for the Redding S series FL dies. I seem to get better accuracy FL sizing compared to neck sizing.
    « Last Edit: 11:30 AM, 11/14/09 by jo191145 »
    Powder charges by Creighton Audette. Seating depths by Virgil King. Attitude by Ayn Rand =)

    Offline Snowwolfe

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #12 on: 01:03 PM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Guys,
    I appreciate all the advice as you helped me steer down the correct path with my soon to be ordered rifle. Am sure I will back with more questions.

    Is Lapula the brass to start with?
    « Last Edit: 01:05 PM, 11/14/09 by Snowwolfe »

    Offline jo191145

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #13 on: 02:13 PM, 11/14/09 »
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  • Lapua's the stuff to start and end with. No need to look elsewhwere.

    Off Post??
     I would go with the single shot. More bedding area if you decide to bed it.
    Should be a stiffer action too. Never heard of anyone finding an accuracy difference between single and repeater in the short action but..... can't hurt.

    I would start with any twist appropriate economy bullet. Factory tubes are not hand lapped custom barrels. Usually require some shooting time before they settle down. 75 Vmax maybe.
    Then I would look hard at the 80gn Bergers. Should work well with the 12 twist. Darn things shoot awesome in every barrel I've tried. .010 jam and off you go.

    Who knows the Vmax just might be the ticket. Nothing wrong with those pills at all ;)

    Powder charges by Creighton Audette. Seating depths by Virgil King. Attitude by Ayn Rand =)

    Offline Snowwolfe

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    Reloading dies for the 6mm Norma BR
    « Reply #14 on: 04:26 PM, 11/14/09 »
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  • This will be a new learning curve for me. Used to loading only for hunting rounds and mostly what I shoot iron sighted double rifles where 1-2 inches at 50 yards is considered more than acceptable!


     

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