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Author Topic: 6mm-.222 remington  (Read 5359 times)

Offline jonsidneyb

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6mm-.222 remington
« on: 06:52 AM, 01/01/08 »
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  • I am curious about this wildcat.

    I am sure this is going to be very very mild mannered cartridge.

    Does anyone know where I can find performance specifications on it?

    Not interested in the 6x45 or the 6x47 based off of the .223 and .222 magnum but of the old classic .222 necked up.


    Offline fdshuster

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #1 on: 10:36 AM, 01/01/08 »
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  • jonsidneyb: Not trying to throw cold water on your idea, but, some areas for you to consider.,1) The little 222, I have several) is a great ctg. but has a small case powder capacity. Opening it up to 6mm will still have limitations, since you simply cannot get enough powder in the case: the main problem with the 223 opened up to 6mm.,2) Since Lapua no longer makes 222 brass, glad I stocked-up when it was available) you are limited to few if any, choices of quality brass. Remington is definitely not quality!,3) When you open up the case neck to 6mm with the mandrel, the case neck will be pulled out of alignement-- way out, resulting in a lot of runnout with the loaded round, as verified w/ the Sinclair runnout gage. Some, but not all, will straighten-out during firing,s), but not all: they can be thrown in the garbage can.  After years of using only high-quality brass, like Lapua and Norma, I recently picked up an old Sako Vixen,L46), this one in 222 Rem. Mag.  I'm now forced to use the Remington brass: what an awakening. When the barrel,original Bofors steel) is due for replacement, it will not be in 222 Rem Mag. Just some of my thoughts, coupled with some experiences.   :)
    Civilian Marksmanship Program/ Distinguished Pistol, 1982

    Offline jonsidneyb

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #2 on: 05:51 PM, 01/01/08 »
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  • I do know the capacity is very low on this cartridge.

    I know there are dies and reamers available for this 6/222 out there already. I was just curious on what kind of results this old wildcat gave.

    The .25 copperhead .257/222 does not seem to be a bad little cartridge so I thought a 6mm version of it might be a nice little thing.


    Offline oldroper

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #3 on: 01:22 PM, 01/04/08 »
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  • Quote from: jonsidneyb
    I do know the capacity is very low on this cartridge.

    I know there are dies and reamers available for this 6/222 out there already. I was just curious on what kind of results this old wildcat gave.

    The .25 copperhead .257/222 does not seem to be a bad little cartridge so I thought a 6mm version of it might be a nice little thing.
     

    Acording to The Handloaoders Manual Of Cartridge Conversion  the 6/222 has a water capacity in grs of 24.88gr  the 222 has 26.19 gr and the case is different from the 222 and 25/222.  Since you already know the case capacity of the 25/222 you know it's less than the 222 case and if you look at the velocity of the 6x45 and 6x47 you will be less that those case.  In a custom rifle I wouldn't expect any less groups if you compare it to a custom 6x45 or 6x47.  My first Br rifle was a 6x47AI.

    Offline jonsidneyb

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #4 on: 10:12 PM, 01/05/08 »
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  • That is curious that the capacity would be smaller than both the .222 and the .25/.222.  Does anyone know why the capacity is smaller than those?

    The capacity is not really an issue since if it was I would definately be looking at something else.

    I guess I am looking at the small end of size and velocity scale rather than faster like most seem to be looking for.

    Offline Cheechako

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #5 on: 11:02 PM, 01/05/08 »
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  • Quote from: jonsidneyb
    That is curious that the capacity would be smaller than both the .222 and the .25/.222.  Does anyone know why the capacity is smaller than those?


    jonsi

    I would guess that the author measured the volumes differently, used different brands of brass for the cartridges or was, how do I put this, wrong.:rolleyes:  You can't neck a case from 224 to .243 and decrease the capacity.

    The 6/222, aka 6 x 43, is a perfectly reasonable wildcat as long as the owner realizes it's limitations, and it appears that you are experienced enough to know what you're doing.  Even smaller 6mm cartridges, like the 6mm Super Jet exist, so you're not at the bottom of the ladder with the 6/222.

    JMHO

    Ray


    Offline jonsidneyb

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #6 on: 01:14 AM, 01/06/08 »
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  • does this cartridge have a name other than these two 6/222, aka 6 x 43


    Offline jb77

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #7 on: 01:01 PM, 01/06/08 »
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  • The Loss of capacity is due to a larger caliber bullet being seated into the case. If case capacity is measured with out a bullet being seated then of course the results will differ.
    Say what you mean, mean what you say.

    Offline Cheechako

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #8 on: 02:23 PM, 01/06/08 »
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  • Quote from: jb77
    The Loss of capacity is due to a larger caliber bullet being seated into the case. If case capacity is measured with out a bullet being seated then of course the results will differ.


    What????:confused:

    Ray

    Offline Cheechako

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    « Reply #9 on: 03:27 PM, 01/06/08 »
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  • I'm not taking sides here so I did my own very unscientific test of capacity.

    I used one case for all the measurements.

    W-W SUPER 222 REM

    Empty with fired primer in place = 95.9 Gr

    Filled to top with H2O = 123.3 Gr

    Weight of water = 27.4 Gr

    Filled with H2O and bullet seated .235" deep = 176.1

    Subtract bullet weight,54.7 gr) = water weight of 25.5 Gr

    Neck case up to 243.

    Empty with fired primer in place = 95.9 Gr

    Filled to top with H20 = 124.2 Gr

    Weight of water = 28.3 Gr

    Filled with H20 and bullet seated .235" deep = 186.2 Gr

    Subtract bullet weight,64.4 gr) = water weight of 25.9 Gr


    So FWIW, by necking up to 243 we gained .9 Gr water capacity without a bullet and .5 Gr with a bullet seated.  

    Ray




    Offline jonsidneyb

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #10 on: 12:14 AM, 01/07/08 »
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  • hmmmm,

    Then how is it that the .25/222 has more capacity as well?  If there is a capcity difference I would think the one with the most and the one with the least would be at the ends of the three cartridges.

    .222 6/.222 257/.222

    Offline oldroper

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #11 on: 07:19 AM, 01/07/08 »
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  • Quote from: jonsidneyb
    That is curious that the capacity would be smaller than both the .222 and the .25/.222.  Does anyone know why the capacity is smaller than those?

    The capacity is not really an issue since if it was I would definately be looking at something else.

    I guess I am looking at the small end of size and velocity scale rather than faster like most seem to be looking for.


    You need to read my post again.  Acording to The Handloaoders Manual Of Cartridge Conversion the 6/222 has a water capacity in grs of 24.88gr the 222 has 26.19 gr and the case is different from the 222 and 25/222.  If they just necked up the 222 to 6mm sure you would have more capacity.  


    Don't get me wrong when I say this, I guess I should have explained what different means but I assume you figure out they changed case dimensions.  

    Offline jb77

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #12 on: 07:28 AM, 01/07/08 »
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  • Ray how deeply are you seating the bullets into the case? I completely agree that if you only seat no deeper than the shoulder neck junction you will gain volume. It's when you seat the larger caliber bullet below the neck shoulder junction you lose volume as the larger caliber bullet is displacicg more area than the 223 cal. bullet.
    Say what you mean, mean what you say.

    Offline jonsidneyb

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    6mm-.222 remington
    « Reply #13 on: 07:56 AM, 01/07/08 »
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  • It would have seemed simpler to just neck up the same as with the .25

    Maybe someone knows what is different about this than the .25/222 besides the diameter.


    Offline Cheechako

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    « Reply #14 on: 11:57 AM, 01/07/08 »
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  • You guys are making this a lot more complicated than it is.

    I did not continue my experiment by necking that same case up to 25 caliber.  But if I had, there's no doubt in my mind that the capacity would have increased a little more.  Probably not as much as the difference between the 22 and 24, but an increase nevertheless.

    My post tells you the amount that I seated the bullet.  It was the same in both examples.  It's obvious that had I seated the 24 caliber bullet deeper or the 22 caliber shallower, the results would have been different.  But I was comparing the H2O capacity difference between a 22 and a 24 case and to do that everything else had to stay the same.

    It's obvious, also, that if i had used a different case for each caliber the results could have been completely different.  But that would not have been a valid comparison.  I suspect that the capacities shown in the book were different for that very reason, or because of different seating depths, or, as I said, the guy didn't know how to measure case capacity.

    I didn't say this yet, but I will now.  I think that the difference between a 222, a 6x43, and 25/222, IN CASE CAPACITY, is so small as to be unimportant.  Things such as bullet weight, bullet seating depth, powder burning rate, barrel length, etc, etc will determine what will work and what won't.

    JMHO

    Ray


     

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